Political relations between UK-EU

[bluethrunthru]

ha ha ha - I remember Brexiteers arguing on here this would never happen - those were of the "they need us more than we need them" persuasion

Deadline looms for expats in Spain to return to UK under new Brexit rules | ITV News

UK nationals who have not applied for residency or who arrived in EU Schengen countries after January 1 will have to return to the UK.

www.itv.com

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

ha ha ha - I remember Brexiteers arguing on here this would never happen - those were of the "they need us more than we need them" persuasion

Deadline looms for expats in Spain to return to UK under new Brexit rules | ITV News

UK nationals who have not applied for residency or who arrived in EU Schengen countries after January 1 will have to return to the UK.

www.itv.com

This story seems to be about people who didn't apply for residency in time when they were possibly eligible. What was the nature of the arguments you remember? If someone doesn't do something on time, like fill out a form or turn up to vote, what can you do?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

This story seems to be about people who didn't apply for residency in time when they were possibly eligible. What was the nature of the arguments you remember? If someone doesn't do something on time, like fill out a form or turn up to vote, what can you do?

Maybe it was because of this pack of lies from one of the liars in chief

 

[bluethrunthru]

This story seems to be about people who didn't apply for residency in time when they were possibly eligible. What was the nature of the arguments you remember? If someone doesn't do something on time, like fill out a form or turn up to vote, what can you do?

People on here were arguing that Spain would never throw out immigrants - sorry expats when they are ours isn't it - under any circumstances

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Maybe it was because of this pack of lies from one of the liars in chief

Again, that person who asked that question has/had the right to stay in France by applying for residency status, and still has until the end of June this year if they have not already done so. Details are clear on the gov.uk and French government websites. As awful as the man is, Gove hasn't lied there as far as I can see.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

People on here were arguing that Spain would never throw out immigrants - sorry expats when they are ours isn't it - under any circumstances

Are you saying people were arguing that Spain would not throw out immigrants even when they had failed to follow the correct process to allow them to remain? I find that hard to believe.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Again, that person who asked that question has/had the right to stay in France by applying for residency status, and still has until the end of June this year if they have not already done so. Details are clear on the gov.uk and French government websites. As awful as the man is, Gove hasn't lied there as far as I can see.

What he implies whilst flying the Project Fear flag there is that the status quo would remain - which it hasn't. EU states can and are setting limits on time spent abroad at your property - in Spain its those 90 day blocks. If you want to apply for residency status criteria that just didn't apply then will now apply because the property owner. As an EU citizen they could travel when they wanted for as long as they wanted - none of this applied whilst we were members

Immigrate to Spain and apply for Non-lucrative residence visa | Residencies.IO

Learn about Non-lucrative residence visa requirements, timing, costs, visa-free travel, taxes and procedures and apply now to become a Spain resident.

residencies.io

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

What he implies whilst flying the Project Fear flag there is that the status quo would remain - which it hasn't. EU states can and are setting limits on time spent abroad at your property - in Spain its those 90 day blocks. If you want to apply for residency status criteria that just didn't apply then will now apply because the property owner. As an EU citizen they could travel when they wanted for as long as they wanted - none of this applied whilst we were members

Immigrate to Spain and apply for Non-lucrative residence visa | Residencies.IO

Learn about Non-lucrative residence visa requirements, timing, costs, visa-free travel, taxes and procedures and apply now to become a Spain resident.

residencies.io

Well you're moving from immigrant to property owner in your argument. On second viewing I can see that Gove answered the question based on immigrants rather than what the lady asked, her being a property owner, but she didn't press him on that. I agree I don't remember much about that during the campaigns.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Well you're moving from immigrant to property owner in your argument. On second viewing I can see that Gove answered the question based on immigrants rather than what the lady asked, her being a property owner, but she didn't press him on that. I agree I don't remember much about that during the campaigns.

In my honest opinion this is one of a number of areas where people live Gove didn't really understand fully the implications of what leaving meant but every time the conversation veered that way they knew it was venturing into awkward territory. So rather than try to properly understand it was easier to say Project Fear and move away. In some cases they knew only too well how detrimental to their cause this was going to be so avoided it at all costs.

 

[dave_blue12]

Friction free trade you say....

 

[bluethrunthru]

Friction free trade you say....

How very dare he disturb Johnson, Gove et al today of all days when they are busy defending the decision not to hold an inquiry into their other deadly fuck up. Now is not the time.

However if he'd like to retweet tomorrow I am sure Gove can come up with another reason to ignore the truth

 

[west didsblue]

Well you're moving from immigrant to property owner in your argument. On second viewing I can see that Gove answered the question based on immigrants rather than what the lady asked, her being a property owner, but she didn't press him on that. I agree I don't remember much about that during the campaigns.

In other words he deliberately misled her and everyone who was watching by answering a similar but different question to the one that was asked. The real facts were deemed unpalatable to the Brexit campaign so were brushed over with a reference to Project Fear. It's now very clear that a retirement home on the Med is out of reach for the vast majority of the population and only available to the wealthy, and it was obviously not made clear enough what existing residents needed to do to remain otherwise there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands returning here.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

In other words he deliberately misled her and everyone who was watching by answering a similar but different question to the one that was asked. The real facts were deemed unpalatable to the Brexit campaign so were brushed over with a reference to Project Fear. It's now very clear that a retirement home on the Med is out of reach for the vast majority of the population and only available to the wealthy, and it was obviously not made clear enough what existing residents needed to do to remain otherwise there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands returning here.

You're giving him credit that he fully understood the question. I can see why he answered from an immigrant/right to reside perspective, but no-one seemed to push him on that error (or deceit, if you prefer, which you do).

There were actually zero facts at the time because the answer relied on the response and actions of the EU and individual member states. The only answer was, we don't know, but of course the Brexit campaign had to paint a picture that they knew what would happen.

Have you got numbers about the hundreds and thousands returning? I'm not denying it, just haven't seen any data on it. I did see that our population has possibly dropped sharply overall, so that suggests lots of movement in both directions.

 

[west didsblue]

You're giving him credit that he fully understood the question. I can see why he answered from an immigrant/right to reside perspective, but no-one seemed to push him on that error (or deceit, if you prefer, which you do).

There were actually zero facts at the time because the answer relied on the response and actions of the EU and individual member states. The only answer was, we don't know, but of course the Brexit campaign had to paint a picture that they knew what would happen.

Have you got numbers about the hundreds and thousands returning? I'm not denying it, just haven't seen any data on it. I did see that our population has possibly dropped sharply overall, so that suggests lots of movement in both directions.

Only from numbers I heard on the news yesterday. No actual written sources.

As you say, there were no known facts at the time. At best there may have been a misguided assumption that the EU would give UK nationals privileges over and above those granted to nationals of other non-EU countries but there appears to be no basis for that assumption other than "they need us to spend our money there". At best they were being incredibly naïve and at worst they were being utterly disingenuous. I suspect the latter based on all the other dishonesty that has become apparent from this government.

 

[Vic]

How very dare he disturb Johnson, Gove et al today of all days when they are busy defending the decision not to hold an inquiry into their other deadly fuck up. Now is not the time.

However if he'd like to retweet tomorrow I am sure Gove can come up with another reason to ignore the truth

Highlights from the twitter thread:

When @BorisJohnson said on Xmas Eve “there will be no non-tariff barriers” it wasn’t a one-off error. It was a pattern over months & yrs of saying barriers wouldn’t exist when they would. Can we blame businesses if they’re now shocked at what they face?

AND (though it's depressing not enjoyable)

It’s ok to admit the BrexiTories lied to you (@JoRichardsKent) / Twitter

 

[bluethrunthru]

Only from numbers I heard on the news yesterday. No actual written sources.

As you say, there were no known facts at the time. At best there may have been a misguided assumption that the EU would give UK nationals privileges over and above those granted to nationals of other non-EU countries but there appears to be no basis for that assumption other than "they need us to spend our money there". At best they were being incredibly naïve and at worst they were being utterly disingenuous. I suspect the latter based on all the other dishonesty that has become apparent from this government.

The biggest problem will start when the elderly start coming home - they will be a burden on our care and health system that has not been planned for - generally speaking your health remains better for longer in life if you are in a warm sunny climate. Bradford and Kilmarnock may not be as kind to the health of the returnee's

 

[bluethrunthru]

Highlights from the twitter thread:

When @BorisJohnson said on Xmas Eve “there will be no non-tariff barriers” it wasn’t a one-off error. It was a pattern over months & yrs of saying barriers wouldn’t exist when they would. Can we blame businesses if they’re now shocked at what they face?

AND (though it's depressing not enjoyable)

It’s ok to admit the BrexiTories lied to you (@JoRichardsKent) / Twitter

I think we can blame all those businesses, business owners and leaders who still went for it and supported it despite knowing Johnson's attitude was known to be "fuck business". If they are shocked then they shouldn't be.

Also in most cases the owners of SME's were blinded to any alternative view and swallowed the Project Fear crap out of personal greed. The number of people that you can read or listen to interviews from in the fishing and mollusc industries who say they voted Leave because they " thought it would benefit them and their business" - not a thought for the motor industry or the lad who lives over the road from them who works in insurance or the woman who runs a nearby farm it was all about them and theirs the rest can forget it. Why feel sorry for selfish people? Its like they bought a new machine to help their work methods and find out they have been sold a pup - should we all feel sorry because they gambled and lost?

 

[Vic]

I think we can blame all those businesses, business owners and leaders who still went for it and supported it despite knowing Johnson's attitude was known to be "fuck business". If they are shocked then they shouldn't be.

Also in most cases the owners of SME's were blinded to any alternative view and swallowed the Project Fear crap out of personal greed. The number of people that you can read or listen to interviews from in the fishing and mollusc industries who say they voted Leave because they " thought it would benefit them and their business" - not a thought for the motor industry or the lad who lives over the road from them who works in insurance or the woman who runs a nearby farm it was all about them and theirs the rest can forget it. Why feel sorry for selfish people? Its like they bought a new machine to help their work methods and find out they have been sold a pup - should we all feel sorry because they gambled and lost?

That twitter thread points out that many in fishing didn't vote Leave. I'm not going to blame people who now know they were duped. Those in my sights are the liars, the don't cares, and (of course) the thick racists.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The biggest problem will start when the elderly start coming home - they will be a burden on our care and health system that has not been planned for - generally speaking your health remains better for longer in life if you are in a warm sunny climate. Bradford and Kilmarnock may not be as kind to the health of the returnee's

Do we know what kind of numbers will be returning?

They‘ve managed to kill off 130k elderly in the past year, so have a bit of leeway with the NHS budget.

 

[west didsblue]

The biggest problem will start when the elderly start coming home - they will be a burden on our care and health system that has not been planned for - generally speaking your health remains better for longer in life if you are in a warm sunny climate. Bradford and Kilmarnock may not be as kind to the health of the returnee's

Replacing a couple of hundred thousand low paid young EU workers / taxpayers with a similar number of elderly retired Brits who will be an additional drain on healthcare and social services doesn’t seem to be a great idea but it’s what we voted for.