Italy v England | Euro 2020 Final

[mac]

Will we ever get to know the real reason why Phil wasn't used as much. Did Saka do any better. Sakas good ge came in a match with not much riding on it. Was Phil's downfall due to the rag pricks giving Southgate ideas. One thing I do know The way Phil plays his football wins trophies, alot of them. The way Southgate plays doesnt.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Plenty of top players do not take pens in shoot outs.

The exact reason we had Batty taking one all those years ago.

So who do we believe then?

Waistcoat and his pre-selected 5 or Grealish who says after the event he wanted to take one?

You know I want Grealish here, so I have no real issue with him taking one or not taking one.

I just feel some and you included can't wait to pick up another stick to beat Sterling with.

We all know if he has taken one and missed your day would have been fulfilled and the amount of vitriol you could spew would have reached new heights.

It is slightly sad tbh

Also, just to put it out there I don't think he is worth 300k but then I don't think KDB is worth 400k, Messi 1m, and Bale 600k per week either.

You have already tried putting words i haven't said in my mouth,now you are making assumption on my thinking......come on pal,your better than that,leave those cuntish tactics to the forum gobshites.

As for 'my day',you know nothing about it,the truth is....Id have had far more respect for Sterling had he stepped up,and as i said earlier....done his job - the outcome being irrelevant.As he chose otherwise though,it maybe is another stick to beat him with or,rather,another weakness in his game.

Sterling should have took the initiative and demanded he was going to be the 2nd taker,that is the level he is at and its something fans expected to see.

Southgate got his in game management wrong and then carried into extra time and the pens,and i wont attribute any blame to any of our players where they were concerned,the buck stops firmly with him.

 

[Nellies left peg]

I blame ratty Fernandes for showing Rashford the prickish way to take a pen and I don't believe a word Waistcoat says, five hands should have gone up straight away. The chance to be a legend you don't say you, you, and you are taking one it's bollocks, poor Saka will be scarred for life

 

[ws01]

Went as expected. A strong, resilient defensive set up can only get you so far. Once you hit the wall you need a manager to be able to tweak and sadly, Southgate hasn't got the courage to try and grab the game by the neck, even though he has the personnel.
We held on for penalties because he saw that as the safest bet as going toe to toe with them was out of his comfort zone.
England have had a good tournament, it would be churlish to say otherwise but however close they come, the reality is they will win nothing with him in charge and some of the best attacking talent the country has produced in a long time will sadly be onlookers from the bench.
The penalties from Sancho and Rashford pissed me off the most, not because they missed as such but the fucking ridiculous look at me run ups beforehand.
A penalty isn't rocket science, there's no great secret as to how they are scored. You take a proper run up with the direction you're going to hit it already stuck in your head then strike it cleanly with pace and height towards a corner.

What if: you stand straight behind the ball. Skip to the side. Run in from an angle. Slow down before you reach the ball. Stutter. Then sidefoot it along the ground, while you're looking directly at the keeper and not the ball?

Will that work?

 

[Metalartin]

I don't get why people think we didn't try to do this while we had the upper hand. While we didn't create too many chances, we were on the front foot and showing plenty of attacking intent before Italy started getting back into it and on occasions we were literally just a single decent pass away from increasing our lead. On another day we'd have been 2 or 3 up before they got a kick but that's just the way it goes at times.

Well that's your take, I don' think we came anywhere near adding a second because we were a bit too safe personally.

Without repeating myself too much, England became less adventurous and Italy kept going until they'd fully won the midfield battle. Italy did improve but it wasn't just that, I really do think England gave up the midfield in terms of possession. We had defenders holding onto the ball too long and being dispossessed because the movement ahead of them was none existent. Kane was doing some decent holdup play but nobody was in support for him to lay it off to. Off the ball, we stopped pressing in packs, which made their passing game easier than it ought to have been. I also don't agree that England don't have a team that's suited to possession football(as others have said elsewhere), not anymore, most of those players do it at club level, there's no reason they can't play that way with England. Italy didn't look like the team who had done more minutes and more running this tournament, they were willing to work harder all over the pitch.

Credit to Mancini anyway, he had them playing the better football, as a team.

 

[Phil1]

What if: you stand straight behind the ball. Skip to the side. Run in from an angle. Slow down before you reach the ball. Stutter. Then sidefoot it along the ground, while you're looking directly at the keeper and not the ball?

Will that work?

Very, very, occasionally and not usually in a final of a major tournament.
It's a good point you make though, more and more players are just trying to be far too clever in a situation that doesn't require it.

 

[kaz7]

Grealish has said he wanted to take a penalty.

I have never called Sterling a coward,i said he wasn't brave enough......it shouldn't even have been a discussion,it was his job.

Lol , raz didnt say no, time to stop your attention seeking on all things raz

 

[ancoats]

Very, very, occasionally and not usually in a final of a major tournament.
It's a good point you make though, more and more players are just trying to be far too clever in a situation that doesn't require it.

rashford pen
the long pause before the run up and then dance you knew he was missing

sancho pen
very poor but the pressure was set by rashford miss

saka pen
well by the time the lad had to take his pen the whole of england was behind the sofa or hiding behind cushions

 

[avoidconfusion]

As an "outsider" - I "only" live in the UK, I am German:

England have done extremely well I think to get into the final and that alone is a massive achievement.
I watched the game last night and was cheering for England - no question about that at all for me.

Having said that - I think Southgate fucked this up big time. The writings were on the wall towards the end of the first half and Southgate did nothing for too long - seemingly did not change formation, let alone players.

I have no idea why Southgate persisted with a 3-5-3 for so long when England were under total siege for most of the 2nd half.

Mount should have come off and Henderson should have come on much earlier but instead he takes off two of the best players in Trippier and Rice first - granted they may have been absolute fucked and knackered.

Mount continued to be absolutely invisible and Saka was just ineffective ever since he came on, nervous and clearly not able to cope with the occasion *in my opinion*.

But the biggest mistake in my opinion was taking off Walker and Henderson just to bring on Rashford and Sancho for penalties... that is 100% down to Southgate. Why would you take two of your most experienced players off and bring on two young players just to take penalties in one of the biggest games of their lives?


And why would you let Saka - who had a pisspoor game let's be honest - take a penalty at all, let alone one of the first 5?

I feel sorry for England falling just short of achieving something incredible - whilst it is also largely down to Southgate that they got this far, for me there is no denying that he fucked up the final and this loss is mostly on him.

England have a fantastic team now, hopefully this experience and defeat will help them grow and mature - they play exciting football and for me are one of the most entertaining teams to watch full stop.

Lastly, I am really sad to see that the "mask" of certain England fans slipped immediately when England lost - clearly there is still a systemic racism problem amongst some elements of the fanbase which is just awful. They were all happy with the black players in the England team until the team lost... the masks slipped and the racists came about again. It's awful.

 

[jamesha]

I have nothing against Saka he is a very promising player. And I feel for him after the miss
But I don't understand why he was playing in front of Sancho,Foden, Grealish.

I can't see it.
He is not ready he should be playing for the U21 .
Its like the need for some kind of new hero was the reason Southgate played him so much.

He did a bit overawed by the occasion but offered very little in terms of trying to control the game. I can see that Southgate wanted pacy players running at the aging Italian defense but it was really more important get more midfield control. Bellingham would have offered more.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think similarly to Croatia in the World Cup, England have good players at either end of the pitch, but teams with a good midfield can dominate the ball against us. I thought Henderson coming on would give us a bit more control, and it did, but he was pretty average compared to the previous games he came on.

Having said that, for all of their control, Italy didn't have a huge number of clear chances and their only goal came from a scrappy set piece, which involved a hell of a lot of luck for Pickford's save to rebound off the post directly into the path of Bonucci.

Agree with all of that mate. What we really lack is David Silva in the middle of the park. But doesn't everyone ;-)

Someone who can read and control the game, who is always in space, can always receive the ball and never lose it. Someone always able to make the little passes and the occasional brilliant through balls. We don't have anyone who can do that.

 

[Patientman63]

To me, Pickford is a pygmy, 3rd rate Joe Hart. Great shot-stopper, woeful distribution! I know I'm still sore from the capitulation, but I can't help but feel he wanted to twat it hard and far soley for the benefit of the cameras! It looked to me at one point Kyle was giving him pelters for him just twatting the ball out willy-nilly. Kyle is like us on here, spoilt by Eddy keeping possession of the ball.

 

[Boo or Boo-urns]

I blame ratty Fernandes for showing Rashford the prickish way to take a pen

... and to Jogba for the horsetrot gallop, and to Mo Salah for the wide sidesteps.

Rashy compiled them all together straight from the ministry of silly run ups.

 

[Chippy_boy]

To me, Pickford is a pygmy, 3rd rate Joe Hart. Great shot-stopper, woeful distribution! I know I'm still sore from the capitulation, but I can't help but feel he wanted to twat it hard and far soley for the benefit of the cameras! It looked to me at one point Kyle was giving him pelters for him just twatting the ball out willy-nilly. Kyle is like us on here, spoilt by Eddy keeping possession of the ball.

Forget talking about goalkeepers. Let's just face it, City would absolutely BATTER England.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Just back from the game and still a bit gutted. Fantastic start but the hand break got put on after that when we might have gone for it a bit more. Italy deserved it. The penalties were poor from both sides.

 

[nmc]

I think this England team have shown enough to give reason to believe that there is potential there. First half they were good, completely managed the best team in the tournament.Second half seemed to believe that they could just sit deep and manage the game out. That was stupid. Were those Southgate's instructions? Who knows? But potential for the coming World Cup. With or without Southgate is another matter.

Second half Italy changed their shape - pushed us back - so much so that we were pretty much a back 7 that meant we surrendered the midfield and lost all our attacking options. Mancini also produced a steady wave of changes that freshened up his side - he deserves huge credit for the way he did this. England just got out manoeuvred by a good coach and a team that implemented plan B very well. No shame in losing to Italy but is does show that tactical agility is required to win a tournament, a bit of luck and mental toughness. England are making good progress and lessons will have been leaned particularly around more flexible tactics. The real challenge is in preserving as much of the defensive ability we have developed when we pick a more attacking and creative midfield.

 

[paulchapo]

Like going to the pub on New Year’s Eve. It’s amateurs’ night

Yes the once a year drinkers I call them

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Mount should have come off and Henderson should have come on much earlier but instead he takes off two of the best players in Trippier and Rice first - granted they may have been absolute fucked and knackered.

Mount continued to be absolutely invisible and Saka was just ineffective ever since he came on, nervous and clearly not able to cope with the occasion *in my opinion*.

But the biggest mistake in my opinion was taking off Walker and Henderson just to bring on Rashford and Sancho for penalties... that is 100% down to Southgate. Why would you take two of your most experienced players off and bring on two young players just to take penalties in one of the biggest games of their lives?

And why would you let Saka - who had a pisspoor game let's be honest - take a penalty at all, let alone one of the first 5?

I agree Mount should have gone off sooner but I'm not sure Henderson was the right player to bring on in his place; he just didn't look fit.

Grealish? Again, didn't look fit.

To be honest I don't think we had enough options on the bench to counter the Italians aggressive game in midfield. Once Southgate brought the wide players inside it allowed the Italians to dominate in midfield, and we struggled from thereon in.

 

[lionheart]

Over and over the same bullshit keeps being repeated here and everywhere else by fans and pundits. "Shame on the older heads who ducked out/bottle merchants." For the last fucking time .....Southgate chose the penalty takers!!!!

Are you really that naive? Southgate merely said that to deflect criticism away from his youngsters. If Shaw, Phillips, Raheem or Big Balls John had stepped forward, they would have been allowed to proceed.

 

[mat]

Very little time given to congratulate Italy. Proving we are a nation of bad losers again.