Italy v England | Euro 2020 Final

[Bluesiam]

There's no doubt Southgate's England were difficult to beat. With 6-7 defensive players on the pitch, that's not exactly surprising. But it was clear we did not have the players on the pitch who were able to retain possession and control enough of the game. In most games there was a period in the middle of the game when we were completely outplayed.
The feeling I had all along was that we would not be able to switch gears if and when needed. Had we taken the chance in earlier rounds to play one holding midfielder, then select a combination of the best technical players (Foden, Grealish, Bellingham, Sancho, etc.) to develop that side of the game, the final outcome may have been different. Playing Foden and Grealish for example would have allowed Mount and Kane to play their best too. You need 2-3 'maestro's' working together to make it work.

As others have said, to win major tournaments, you have to have the courage to try to play and at times risk being more open at the back. I hope that is a lesson Mr. Southgate and his team have learned.

 

[Bantamgaz]

There's no doubt Southgate's England were difficult to beat. With 6-7 defensive players on the pitch, that's not exactly surprising. But it was clear we did not have the players on the pitch who were able to retain possession and control enough of the game. In most games there was a period in the middle of the game when we were completely outplayed.
The feeling I had all along was that we would not be able to switch gears if and when needed. Had we taken the chance in earlier rounds to play one holding midfielder, then select a combination of the best technical players (Foden, Grealish, Bellingham, Sancho, etc.) to develop that side of the game, the final outcome may have been different. Playing Foden and Grealish for example would have allowed Mount and Kane to play their best too. You need 2-3 'maestro's' working together to make it work.

As others have said, to win major tournaments, you have to have the courage to try to play and at times risk being more open at the back. I hope that is a lesson Mr. Southgate and his team have learned.

Sadly I doubt it we will no doubt see if he’s learned over the next 6 months ........if Grealish or Foden ain’t regular starters then it will be the same negative set up that saw us fail on Sunday

 

[Bantamgaz]

Btw love Mancini but come on everyone is making out he is a tactical genius any manager could have done what he did when the oppo team sits back and let it happen :(

 

[BuzLightyear]

There's no doubt Southgate's England were difficult to beat. With 6-7 defensive players on the pitch, that's not exactly surprising. But it was clear we did not have the players on the pitch who were able to retain possession and control enough of the game. In most games there was a period in the middle of the game when we were completely outplayed.
The feeling I had all along was that we would not be able to switch gears if and when needed. Had we taken the chance in earlier rounds to play one holding midfielder, then select a combination of the best technical players (Foden, Grealish, Bellingham, Sancho, etc.) to develop that side of the game, the final outcome may have been different. Playing Foden and Grealish for example would have allowed Mount and Kane to play their best too. You need 2-3 'maestro's' working together to make it work.

As others have said, to win major tournaments, you have to have the courage to try to play and at times risk being more open at the back. I hope that is a lesson Mr. Southgate and his team have learned.

Time will tell but unlikely he will learn that lesson ... leopards rarely change their spots. We are stuck with him for a decade at least. Fortunately we still have the Premiership to excite us and to show the world the true face of English Football ... and they will continue to buy our product rather than La Liga or Serie A.

 

[hammocity]

One thing is for sure next year at the World Cup, it is going to hot/humid so we best start to control the ball and games a lot more instead of chasing it

It's about 73° and only a 5% chance of humidity in December, a bit like the weather can be here on the first couple of weeks in August when the domestic season starts.

 

[BuzLightyear]

Not sure England have the talent - yet - which the media think they have & not sure Southgate yet knows how to play Foden and Grealish. Most championship winning teams have a top class, intelligent deeper central midfielder conducting the tempo, breaking things up - Jorginho, Kante, busquets, schweinstieger, Pirlo, Gilberto Silva, deschamps. England don’t have that player yet. In time it might be Rice or Bellingham (he’s only 17);)

A combination of Phil and Jack might do until such a player emerges. Billy Gilmour did it for Scotland against us. I agree that Rice might eventually become that player. I suspect Bellingham will be more box to box rather than deep lying.

 

[paulchapo]

Lots of hostility. Well done.

My point stands, but you’re so far gone with the personal insults (always fun from an anonymous numpty that doesn’t know you), you can’t possibly see the subtlety of the point.

For months the players have been taking penalties. Any “world class” player would have been doing just fine on those, esp in training.

And, I have already spoken about Southgate’s idiocy in creating his list from some months long spreadsheet in training. It should be an end of game decision, based on who is fit, healthy, ready, choosing to step up…not some stale, no jeopardy BS data.

It is completely in sync with Southgate’s cold, calculated, emotionless approach to a game that lives on, and breathes, emotion.

“Alright men, who wants the first 5 and we’ll go from there. Let me know which one you want. Step up with pride and confidence, no fucking about, and let’s do it for the country. Now, Harry, you want #1 or #5? Let’s build the list from there.”

Not rocket science. Not science at all.

That's not hostility it's exasperation for somebody who just goes on and on like a stuck record in a groove repeating the same old shit. Not one of us were privy to what went on either in the training ground or pitch side when the time came for penalties. All is we know is what he has said in interviews. Was his approach wrong or was it just we missed three penalties,( the super professional Italians missed two) in yet another penalty failure of which we have only won one we have ever been involved in?

You're also an anonymous numpty to myself and everyone else in life who doesn't know you. We only draw our opinions about you on what you write on here and in my opinion and a fair few others judging by the comments on here, you're a Sterling hating knob. So blinkered you ignore all the evidence to the contrary and just persist that he's a bottle job who refused to take a penalty . Thank God you are in the states and not at the ground booing our players, long may that continue.

 

[BuzLightyear]

Hate to say it but Southgate is all about the take the knee initiative but didn't take into account the non footballing aspect of his decision to put Saka a young black 19 yr old in the spotlight in such an important moment. I'm suprised none of the coaching team or the players picked up on this.

Thank you citymad for touching on such a sensitive issue. We shouldn't let non footballing aspects come into it anymore than the twitter morons but the reality is that the football world has changed and social media cannot be ignored, until it's properly regulated.

 

[jonah62]

Everything in the garden is lovely, according to Henry Winter and most other journos. Southgate is the man to lead us for the foreseeable (he is apparently more popular than Churchill now, says a poll), and England can only get better. The team achieved a near-miracle by losing narrowly in a major European tournament. It was all so wonderful and thrilling.
Compare all this (bits of it may be partly true) with City reaching a major European club competition final in Porto. All we heard was "Pep fails again to win the big one", etc, etc. No one said "City can only get better" or "Have a great chance next time".
The difference is that English journos see the national team through rose-tinted specs, and City with a jaundiced eye, looking for negatives.
Can we have equal treatment please?
Probably not.

 

[jonah62]

Certainly not

 

[Saddleworth2]

There's no doubt Southgate's England were difficult to beat. With 6-7 defensive players on the pitch, that's not exactly surprising. But it was clear we did not have the players on the pitch who were able to retain possession and control enough of the game. In most games there was a period in the middle of the game when we were completely outplayed.
The feeling I had all along was that we would not be able to switch gears if and when needed. Had we taken the chance in earlier rounds to play one holding midfielder, then select a combination of the best technical players (Foden, Grealish, Bellingham, Sancho, etc.) to develop that side of the game, the final outcome may have been different. Playing Foden and Grealish for example would have allowed Mount and Kane to play their best too. You need 2-3 'maestro's' working together to make it work.

As others have said, to win major tournaments, you have to have the courage to try to play and at times risk being more open at the back. I hope that is a lesson Mr. Southgate and his team have learned.

Good post. I said yesterday that England wont win a competition until they learn how to dominate possession in a game against a top team. You cannot do that the way Southgate has set up the team with 8 of the 11 basically defenders. He has to now show far greater tactical flexibility and play a back 4 with one dm and 5 offensive players. As City fans we are well versed in this stuff. Pep is fond of saying that the team that dominates the ball almost always wins. I hope he can learn and develop because the other stuff he does (media, man mangement) is very good and he has succeeded in making the England squad inclusive and far more likeable. These are not things to be sniffed at.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

That's not hostility it's exasperation for somebody who just goes on and on like a stuck record in a groove repeating the same old shit.

I call it the way I see it…on ALL players, flavor of the month or not.

Not one of us were privy to what went on either in the training ground or pitch side when the time came for penalties. All is we know is what he has said in interviews. Was his approach wrong or was it just we missed three penalties,( the super professional Italians missed two) in yet another penalty failure of which we have only won one we have ever been involved in?

It’s the disappointment of yet another failure to get over the line. We seem to lack the bottle needed to get past the mental block of failure, and I see parallels (or is it cause and effect?) in that in numerous issues facing Southgate, some players, and even the structure of the England set-up.

The term “flatter to deceive” comes to mind.

You're also an anonymous numpty to myself and everyone else in life who doesn't know you. We only draw our opinions about you on what you write on here and in my opinion and a fair few others judging by the comments on here, you're a Sterling hating knob.

I refer you to my first comment.

I have been consistent in my basic views on Sterling’s game and abilities, but have also been very positive about him at times. However, it seems some people quickly pigeonhole a poster and then conveniently ignore the positive comments.

So blinkered you ignore all the evidence to the contrary and just persist that he's a bottle job who refused to take a penalty.

There’s those pigeonholed assumptions again.

Thank God you are in the states and not at the ground booing our players, long may that continue.

Now you’re just showing your ignorance. I’ve never booed a Blue in my life, and I’d venture I’ve seen more games in person than most.

I’ll leave it there, because I have no desire to get into a dock measuring contest regarding who is the better Blue, bigger City fan, or knows more about football.

You do you, I’ll do me.

Feel free to comment on anything I say, but please try to stick to the facts or support your opinions, while trying to keep the personal insults to a minimum. While I can certainly play that game, it’s boring to everyone else!

 

[Bill Walker]

I hope he can learn and develop because the other stuff he does (media, man mangement) is very good and he has succeeded in making the England squad inclusive and far more likeable. These are not things to be sniffed at.

I hope he resigns.
He's out of his depth. Like KK admitted he was.

 

[paulchapo]

I call it the way I see it…on ALL players, flavor of the month or not.


It’s the disappointment of yet another failure to get over the line. We seem to lack the bottle needed to get past the mental block of failure, and I see parallels (or is it cause and effect?) in that in numerous issues facing Southgate, some players, and even the structure of the England set-up.

The term “flatter to deceive” comes to mind.


I refer you to my first comment.

I have been consistent in my basic views on Sterling’s game and abilities, but have also been very positive about him at times. However, it seems some people quickly pigeonhole a poster and then conveniently ignore the positive comments.


There’s those pigeonholed assumptions again.


Now you’re just showing your ignorance. I’ve never booed a Blue in my life, and I’d venture I’ve seen more games in person than most.

I’ll leave it there, because I have no desire to get into a dock measuring contest regarding who is the better Blue, bigger City fan, or knows more about football.

You do you, I’ll do me.

Feel free to comment on anything I say, but please try to stick to the facts or support your opinions, while trying to keep the personal insults to a minimum. While I can certainly play that game, it’s boring to everyone else!

You've made your mind up on Sterling and I've made mine up on you. I'd say we have reached a common ground there.

 

[BuzLightyear]

I'm really surprised at all the anti-Southgate comments to be honest.

He has guided England to the semi-final of the World Cup and the final of the Euros. Correct me if I'm wrong, but who else other than Ramsey comes close to that level of success? No one. Simple as that. You can pick imaginary England managers like Pep, but I don't think he'd do better than Southgate with the players he's got.

For the first 30 minutes last night, we looked really good. We looked the better team and if we'd scored another we'd have had a great chance of winning it. Obviously in the second half, Italy got back into the game and it's clear they are a great team and are managed by a legend. It surely can't be a surprise to anyone that a great team dominate a game. Have we EVER dominated a team like Italy? I've watched us for 40 years and don't remember it.

We took Italy to penalties in a final. We were incredibly close to winning it and it's easy with hindsight to look back and say Rashford, Saka and Sancho shouldn't have took them. I guarantee if Walker, Shaw and Stones had took them and missed the same people would be saying Rashford, Saka and Sancho should take them as they are forwards. Penalty shoot-outs are decided on very fine margins. That's life. It's impossible to predict the shoot outs and our keeper did well on them too.

Some England fans are starting to remind me of Newcastle fans at times. We don't have - yet - many genuine World Class players, but we expect England to play like Pep's City. Most teams who win the international trophies don't play gung-ho, they play patiently and cautiously. Not even teams like Brazil, France, Germany, Argentina or Portugal bomb forwards constantly. If they did, they'd get beat.

Southgate has copied Pep's tactics and we play out from the back. Pickford isn't Ederson but the back line of Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw is now as good as any in the world. He's made Phillips and Rice into impressive defensive midfielders and I'm sure Bielsa and Moyes would shake his hand. I'm gutted we didn't see more of Foden and Grealish, but Southgate got more right than wrong and to be honest, Foden didn't make himself undroppable did he? I didn't rate Mount and though Kane was anonymous but he's difficult to drop.

Southgate has hit on tactics which will take England far into any international competition. We might not win any, but we'll be in with a good shout. He's done it twice now, so it's no fluke. I'm absolutely positive he will be kicking himself this morning, but I'm also sure he will be thinking about the next tournament too. He's an intelligent man. he will learn and from what I can see, the players love him as a manager.

I do sometimes think we need to just cut England managers some slack. For some reason we expect a bunch of non-world class players to win every single tournament and give no credit to the opposition.

I bet Mancini knew he'd had a game last night and had to earn that result.

Thank you for a well-thought out post. However we must agree to differ ...

Of course we looked good - we scored after 2 mins! But from then on, as Kane admitted, we tried to hold onto the lead. Classic Gareth. Dominated Italy? When? By not having another shot in the first half? Long before half time, Mancini had sorted out the problem. He reacted, Southgate did not. It was Italy dominating us after that ... still first half.

The tactics Gareth has "hit on" ( defend with 7 or 8 ) may well help us proceed during tournaments. But I don't expect this Anti-Football will win a trophy. It was painful to watch, match after match,and even more painful, was looking at the creativity sitting on his bench most of the time.

Gareth's a nice guy, nice demeanor but not a top manager. A lucky manager - yes - but luck usually runs out as it did in the last 3 tournaments. I don't mind us not winning a tournament provided the team entertains. Gareth's England did not.

 

[BuzLightyear]

How could you not consider the aftermath the 19 Yr old kid would suffer if he were to miss. That alone is a sackable reason. He had 3 days to ponder this. He would've discussed the situation with his coaching team and he still never changed his mind. I hope the kid uses this as motivation to move forward and make a success at Arsenal.

Good post. He's already a success at Arsenal. I'd be more than happy to bring him to the Etihad. Team up with Phil and Jack. : )

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You've made your mind up on Sterling and I've made mine up on you. I'd say we have reached a common ground there.

Only one of us has made up his mind, while the other prefers to use evidence-based observations to shape his opinions as the evidence presents itself.

As for your opinion of me, it’s irrelevant to me and everyone else here, as this Forum us about City, City players, and football in general.

 

[GoatersLeftShin]

@BuzLightyear all fair points them, I do see where you are coming from.

It would be boring if we all agreed on everything though :)

 

[BuzLightyear]

Kane is granted, but the others who started or came on yesterday - no, I don't think they are.

World Class Players - Shaw, Maguire, Grealish, Kane, Mount, Foden.

 

[Cityfan]

Btw love Mancini but come on everyone is making out he is a tactical genius any manager could have done what he did when the oppo team sits back and let it happen :(

I don't think England sat back so much as Mancinis tactics forced them back and they didn't have the know how to respond when their wing backs were pushed back leaving three central defenders underemployed and loads of space for Italys midfield unless the forwards came back leaving us with no way out.
England continued to dominate for about 15 minutes after they scored until Italy changed around a bit then they didn't know how to respond.