US Politics Thread

[journolud]

Yes, do nothing.

Really? I was under the impression he had got a massive relief bill through, despite opposition from the republicans and that in the short term that guarantees payments to all Americans. Beyond that has he made a policy announcement that he plans to do nothing to help the poorer in society or are you taking the lack of a specific announcement as proof he will do nothing?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Really? I was under the impression he had got a massive relief bill through, despite opposition from the republicans and that in the short term that guarantees payments to all Americans. Beyond that has he made a policy announcement that he plans to do nothing to help the poorer in society or are you taking the lack of a specific announcement as proof he will do nothing?

The relief bill is palliative, the clue is in the name. He's raised the minimum wage for federal workers but he's unable to raise it for the private sector. The good paying, secure jobs with trade union rights he wants would require he support ditching the filibuster and that seems unlikely, besides there's enough corporate Democrats to scuttle it anyways.

The gap between the haves and have nots has grown uninterrupted since the 70s, all the years he's been active in politics, including the eight years he was VP. To reverse that would require radical change, the like of which we've not seen since FDR and Biden is no FDR.

 

[journolud]

The relief bill is palliative, the clue is in the name. He's raised the minimum wage for federal workers but he's unable to raise it for the private sector. The good paying, secure jobs with trade union rights he wants would require he support ditching the filibuster and that seems unlikely, besides there's enough corporate Democrats to scuttle it anyways.

The gap between the haves and have nots has grown uninterrupted since the 70s, all the years he's been active in politics, including the eight years he was VP. To reverse that would require radical change, the like of which we've not seen since FDR and Biden is no FDR.

Thanks for your reply, interesting stuff and might prompt me to do more reading. From what you are saying though there is even less political will and even more corporate resistance than the UK to really effect any sort of change for those in the margins.

I’d be happy to hear a more optimistic appraisal from anyone who is living under Biden’s presidency

 

[mancity1]

Why do you suppose the gap between the haves and the have nots will get wider under Biden? Is there a specific policy of his that suggests this is likely?

One such is to continue with a policy of renewable uptake that will drive up electricity prices as it has done in every country such as Germany which impacts more on the poor than the wealthier.

its more than just government subsidies to fund those who take it up at the expense of those who don't as that money is diverted away from the poor to the rich anyway in the long run.

look who is making money from lockdowns from covid and passing it onto corporate partners and shareholders.

I can tell you it ain't the poorest 15 per cent of the population who cannot invest in these companies because in most cases their wage goes to pay the rent and place food on the table to survive and keep the lights on in the home and heat and cool the house if they have anything left.

Where is the policy and passing into law to increase the minimum wage to a decent level?

Where is the policy and passing into law to scrap income tax on low incomes and increase tax on middle and high earners?

follow the money trail from climate change policy and see how much ends up in the pockets who need it most.

Another is to pursue this new zero carbon emission which will eventually hit food produce and prices which again hits the poor more so than the wealthy remembering the price of produce for both is the same as is electricity consumption.

When prices of essential goods and services rise it hits the poor more than the rich and in real terms the gap widens.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

To all the "you don't know what the world is like through my eyes" and "when are Democrats going to get off Trump and onto important topics like climate change and wealth inequality" types . . . let me show you how I look at it, through actual American eyes.

Here's what we're dealing with: lies underlying the fundamental fabric of one political party. Awful lies. The worst KIND of lies because they go directly to the heart of the survival of the nation and its democratic processes -- as imperfect and flawed and changeable as they are . . . .

This is the fucking GOP conference chair:




I couldn't give a FUCK about Democratic platforms, promises, pace of change and all that bullshit, because there's something more important at stake: the right to have these discussions. A nation to have these discussions in. The ability to express preference for change if I don't like the direction the nation is going.

I'm supporting the ability to decide how I want to fix the problems you see and have and who I think is best equipped to address them. You and I may disagree about who is best equipped to fix them. That's fine. I have no issue there.

But the thing is . . . I can't make those calls if a party that supports a fundamental overthrow of US democracy and way of governing is in power. YOUR issues won't BE addressed, and nor will MY issues, as different as our issues may be. THAT'S why I supported Biden. And why I support voting every last GOP cult adherent out.

Every. Single. One.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

To all the "you don't know what the world is like through my eyes" and "when are Democrats going to get off Trump and onto important topics like climate change and wealth inequality" types . . . let me show you how I look at it, through actual American eyes.

Here's what we're dealing with: lies underlying the fundamental fabric of one political party. Awful lies. The worst KIND of lies because they go directly to the heart of the survival of the nation and its democratic processes -- as imperfect and flawed and changeable as they are . . . .

This is the fucking GOP conference chair:



I couldn't give a FUCK about Democratic platforms, promises, pace of change and all that bullshit, because there's something more important at stake: the right to have these discussions. A nation to have these discussions in. The ability to express preference for change if I don't like the direction the nation is going.

I'm supporting the ability to decide how I want to fix the problems you see and have and who I think is best equipped to address them. You and I may disagree about who is best equipped to fix them. That's fine. I have no issue there.

But the thing is . . . I can't make those calls if a party that supports a fundamental overthrow of US democracy and way of governing is in power. YOUR issues won't BE addressed, and nor will MY issues, as different as our issues may be. THAT'S why I supported Biden. And why I support voting every last GOP cult adherent out.

Every. Single. One.

Great Post.

Tried to explain that to a few on here in the building up to the election, but apparently Biden wasn't "progressive" enough.

Good job nobody f*cking listened to them otherwise democracy would he dead already.

As for the GOP Conference Chair blaming the Speaker of the House; why did the GOP vote unanimously against an investigation into Jan 6th if they believed Pelisi was to blame?

 

[mat]

To all the "you don't know what the world is like through my eyes" and "when are Democrats going to get off Trump and onto important topics like climate change and wealth inequality" types . . . let me show you how I look at it, through actual American eyes.

Here's what we're dealing with: lies underlying the fundamental fabric of one political party. Awful lies. The worst KIND of lies because they go directly to the heart of the survival of the nation and its democratic processes -- as imperfect and flawed and changeable as they are . . . .

This is the fucking GOP conference chair:



I couldn't give a FUCK about Democratic platforms, promises, pace of change and all that bullshit, because there's something more important at stake: the right to have these discussions. A nation to have these discussions in. The ability to express preference for change if I don't like the direction the nation is going.

I'm supporting the ability to decide how I want to fix the problems you see and have and who I think is best equipped to address them. You and I may disagree about who is best equipped to fix them. That's fine. I have no issue there.

But the thing is . . . I can't make those calls if a party that supports a fundamental overthrow of US democracy and way of governing is in power. YOUR issues won't BE addressed, and nor will MY issues, as different as our issues may be. THAT'S why I supported Biden. And why I support voting every last GOP cult adherent out.

Every. Single. One.

Peak gaslighting by that idiot.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

"I wouldn't vote for either Biden or Trump if I was American."

Go fuck yourself.

'I was just trying to survive that day': Cops in Jan. 6 hearing describe beatings, slurs from pro-Trump mob

Rep. Liz Cheney also said the Jan. 6 select committee might subpoena Trump and House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Bigga]

So, the guy that wants people to 'see things through his eyes' seems not to understand that there is this perpetual never-ending political running on the hamster wheel. One chases the other one way and then other reverses that chase. Or I could simplify it, even further:

Your party politics is 'Wil. E. Coyote and Roadrunner', 'Tom and Jerry', 'Jedi and Sith' or my personal favourite 'Rick and Morty'. See the latter names are much better in analogy than the other pantomimes.

Whilst the others need each other to exist, 'R&M' are family that goad each other on, reveal truths on one another, hate each other, but have enough 'love' to bring each other through.

What would the GOP do without Dems and vice versa? Both need the other to retain the fear and power over people; that's how your system has set things up. Choose one side or the other.

And like in 'R&M', people get hurt in the fallout.

This is WHY you people NEED a third party or more. One that doesn't necessary have to govern, but have a SAY in what happens in gov and to be on the side of working people if both of those shitty parties put corporations first. You people have the potential to make politics better than we have here and you continue to fuck it up/

It's called balance.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So, the guy that wants people to 'see things through his eyes' seems not to understand that there is this perpetual never-ending political running on the hamster wheel. One chases the other one way and then other reverses that chase. Or I could simplify it, even further:

Your party politics is 'Wil. E. Coyote and Roadrunner', 'Tom and Jerry', 'Jedi and Sith' or my personal favourite 'Rick and Morty'. See the latter names are much better in analogy than the other pantomimes.

Whilst the others need each other to exist, 'R&M' are family that goad each other on, reveal truths on one another, hate each other, but have enough 'love' to bring each other through.

What would the GOP do without Dems and vice versa? Both need the other to retain the fear and power over people; that's how your system has set things up. Choose one side or the other.

And like in 'R&M', people get hurt in the fallout.

This is WHY you people NEED a third party or more. One that doesn't necessary have to govern, but have a SAY in what happens in gov and to be on the side of working people if both of those shitty parties put corporations first. You people have the potential to make politics better than we have here and you continue to fuck it up/

It's called balance.

I could have posted the wiki article but I thought I'd get something in your favourite medium.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I couldn't give a FUCK about Democratic platforms, promises, pace of change and all that bullshit,

You should, because if it amounts to next to nothing......

because there's something more important at stake: the right to have these discussions. A nation to have these discussions in.

Then there's nothing to discuss, and if there's nothing to discuss who gives a fuck about the right to have these discussions?

The answer, of course, is you.

You want to stop the cult, that's understandable, but given the polarised state of your politics, the Democrats need to stop talking about a bi-partisan fantasy, stop all the Biden folksy appealing to your better angels bullshit, and start playing hardball politics, red in tooth and claw.

The Republicans do.

You think Biden, Schumer and Pelosi are up for that fight? I don't and if they don't have a compelling message to sell and they don't have the balls to kick arse, what are they? Except not Trump and the GOP, sadly that'll only get them so far, wonderful as that simple statement is.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I could have posted the wiki article but I thought I'd get something in your favourite medium.

What does Duvager’s law say about supporters of a candidate who scream “Kill that cop with his own gun!!” as they stomp on him?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

You should, because if it amounts to next to nothing......



Then there's nothing to discuss, and if there's nothing to discuss who gives a fuck about the right to have these discussions?

The answer, of course, is you.

You want to stop the cult, that's understandable, but given the polarised state of your politics, the Democrats need to stop talking about a bi-partisan fantasy, stop all the Biden folksy appealing to your better angels bullshit, and start playing politics hardball, red in tooth and claw.

The Republicans do.

You think Biden, Schumer and Pelosi are up for that fight? I don't and if they don't have a compelling message to sell and they don't have the balls to kick arse, what are they? Except not Trump and the GOP, sadly that'll only get them so far, wonderful as that simple statement is.

Given the compelling amount of evidence it really DOESN'T matter one bit about the Dem's 'next to nothing' platform because it doesn't directly lead to the death of democracy unlike the alternative...

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What does Duvager’s law say about supporters of a candidate who scream “Kill that cop with his own gun!!” as they stomp on him?

It says that candidate still has a chance if they are wearing a red rosette.

I was responding to his proposal for a third party though.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

You should, because if it amounts to next to nothing......



Then there's nothing to discuss, and if there's nothing to discuss who gives a fuck about the right to have these discussions?

The answer, of course, is you.

You want to stop the cult, that's understandable, but given the polarised state of your politics, the Democrats need to stop talking about a bi-partisan fantasy, stop all the Biden folksy appealing to your better angels bullshit, and start playing politics hardball, red in tooth and claw.

The Republicans do.

You think Biden, Schumer and Pelosi are up for that fight? I don't and if they don't have a compelling message to sell and they don't have the balls to kick arse, what are they? Except not Trump and the GOP, sadly that'll only get them so far, wonderful as that simple statement is.

PF, I have no bone to pick with you policy-wise -- I have become much more keenly aware and discouraged about of the wealth disparity issue in the last years in the US and globally as I've seen it grow -- but it's frustrating to have what I thought was simple post expressed simply go over the head or through the legs of people who continually seem under the impression that America is "politics as usual."

Having made the suggestion, what do you propose the Democrats do? Lie? Cheat? Steal? Of COURSE they aren't up for that fight. Are you? Is any moral person?

I've already posted this, but I'll post it again -- Keyser Soze said it best: "To be in power, you don't need guns, or money, or even numbers. You just need the will to do what the other guy won't."

That's exactly the strategy employed by the Trumpist GOP cult. How do you go lower than the lies the cult tells? How do you fight it within the confines of all the other jobs you have as an elected representative?

Decry it, call it out, and convince the people to do the one thing they CAN do: Vote. Them. All. Out. Why do you think the cult acolytes, some of whom up til Trump were thought of as moderate Republicans, have embraced what they have? Because it ensures the base turnout to remain in power. Why go after voting rights? Same reason. Because the one and only weapon Democrats and democracy-believing Americans have is the ballot box.

Do you really believe you can re-program a cult member with policy? Kill the leader (at the ballot box). Next, kill his acolytes (at the ballot box). Watch the cult slowly fragment and disunify. Then we can have a broader, better discussion on platform.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Given the compelling amount of evidence it really DOESN'T matter one bit about the Dem's 'next to nothing' platform because it doesn't directly lead to the death of democracy unlike the alternative...

Exactly. This is such a simple, straightforward point. Why is it so hard to grasp? I assume because it's a function of pre-conceived notions about how American politics work. Folks, all that shit is out the fucking window. We can rewind the tape if you want to ("How did we get here?") but that's a waste of time. We averted crisis #1 -- the Presidential election -- and crisis #2 -- the insurrection.

@ChicagoBlue will tell you: in an emergency, the aircraft captain's rule rule is -- in order -- "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate." We are still at the A or maybe the N stage of the emergency. Instead, some of you lot are bitching because you'll be late to Aunt Nellie's for dinner.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It is very frustrating to have what I thought was simple post expressed simply go over the head or through the legs of people who continually seem under the impression that America is "politics as usual."

So, you having made the suggestion, what do you pose the Democrats do? Lie? Cheat? Steal? Of COURSE they aren't up for that fight. Are you?

I've already posted this, so I'll post it again -- Keyser Soze said it best: "To be in power, you don't need guns, or money, or even numbers. You just need the will to do what the other guy won't."

That's exactly the strategy employed by the cult. Not this cult -- every cult. How do you go lower than the lies the cult tells? How do you fight it within the confines of all the other jobs you have as an elected representative?

Decry it, call it out, and convince the people to do the one thing they CAN do: Vote. Them. All. Out.

I'm sure you have a wealth of thoughtful suggestions though.

If you can't play gutter politics with the cult, because they'll always go lower than you, then you have to outsell them with a compelling message, which returns us to this....

I couldn't give a FUCK about Democratic platforms, promises, pace of change and all that bullshit

So, as far as you're concerned, the Democrats have nothing, no hardball politics and no policies worthy of your consideration, you think they'll survive on decency and folksy Biden whimsy?

That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Given the compelling amount of evidence it really DOESN'T matter one bit about the Dem's 'next to nothing' platform because it doesn't directly lead to the death of democracy unlike the alternative...

It matters if the absence of a compelling Democratic platform ushers in Democracy's Grim Reaper.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

If you can't play gutter politics with the cult, because they'll always go lower than you, then you have to outsell them with a compelling message, which returns us to this....



So, as far as you're concerned, the Democrats have nothing, no hardball politics and no policies worthy of your consideration, you think they'll survive on decency and folksy Biden whimsy?

That's a recipe for disaster.

A compelling message doesn't convince cult members to vote for you. IT'S A CULT. Cut the heads off the leaders first before you try to deprogram the adherents.

They'll survive the way Bill Clinton did: "It's the economy, stupid." Dude -- we're coming out of a pandemic. Just as Clinton was coming out of a recession, and Obama was coming out of the financial crisis. An up-and-to-the-right chart heals a lot of short-term (albeit not long-term) ills.

Having said that, Nancy P thumbs-downing cult members on the 1/6 committee was a start. Force them to expend their oxygen down narrow partisan distribution channels, not national (i.e. committee chambers) ones.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Exactly. This is such a simple, straightforward point. Why is it so hard to grasp? I assume because it's a function of pre-conceived notions about how American politics work. Folks, all that shit is out the fucking window. We can rewind the tape if you want to ("How did we get here?") but that's a waste of time. We averted crisis #1 -- the Presidential election -- and crisis #2 -- the insurrection.

@ChicagoBlue will tell you: in an emergency, the aircraft captain's rule rule is -- in order -- "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate." We are still at the A or maybe the N stage of the emergency. Instead, some of you lot are bitching because you'll be late to Aunt Nellie's for dinner.

In aviation terms I think they're fighting to control the aircraft and are are looking for a place to land. At least they have a fairly competent captain and first officer onboard. Conversely the other party are trying to dismantle the autopilot and unscrewing the rudder whilst pouring sand into the fuel tanks.