City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

These indeed are very strange times. When a well run club is vilified by its own league members who make money off us by buying players at exorbitant prices( look dippers and villa and others) and send letterheaded forms to UEFA to get same club banned I’ve got to chuckle to myself how has it come to this? But has been said by many better writers then me they are hurting like mad and just don’t know how the fuck they can cope with us. The spanish mates I have here can’t understand the shit we get for having to best football they have seen since Barcelona in its pomp and why I try to explain the media bias in the uk. We all know to a man and girl ffp was a devisive devise to rein us in and us only.
 
Spanishbob said:
These indeed are very strange times. When a well run club is vilified by its own league members who make money off us by buying players at exorbitant prices( look dippers and villa and others) and send letterheaded forms to UEFA to get same club banned I’ve got to chuckle to myself how has it come to this? But has been said by many better writers then me they are hurting like mad and just don’t know how the fuck they can cope with us. The spanish mates I have here can’t understand the shit we get for having to best football they have seen since Barcelona in its pomp and why I try to explain the media bias in the uk. We all know to a man and girl ffp was a devisive devise to rein us in and us only.
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Can I also add sorry for my misspelled writing I’m pissed. :-)
 
ancoats said:
i was talking about the premier league not a shit spanish league ? united are in a mess and add the new signings to losses made. if £600milion in debt not financial trouble then you must be on the uefa board matey

at what point does that debt gets repaid or stop growing ? covid-19 fell nicely for the elite teams and united
it covers their backs to a point. but also the value of the club is cut by £600million if they sell up
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You stated Barcelona in both your examples.

If you are in £600k in debt in a £1m house and earning £200k a year it is sustainable and lot better than someone in no debt with a £30k house in Bacup on £18 k a year, who can't afford to maintain their dilapidated back to back, so it is all relative.

The PL clubs are worth far more than their debts which get paid off when they are sold to the next owner.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Our old friemd Ed Thompson has resurfaced in the latest issue of When Saturday Comes. At the end of an otherwise decent article on FFP, he comes up with this:

View attachment 25820
I mean, how wrong can you be? A strongly worded letter has landed on WSC's desk. Let's see if they print it.
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Seems that if the facts don't suit the article then presenting a scenario that does as a fact ie lying is perfectly acceptable in modern journalism.

Well researched Colin.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Our old friemd Ed Thompson has resurfaced in the latest issue of When Saturday Comes. At the end of an otherwise decent article on FFP, he comes up with this:

View attachment 25820
I mean, how wrong can you be? A strongly worded letter has landed on WSC's desk. Let's see if they print it.
Click to expand...
I was bored yesterday so I read the CAS' judgement of our case
I'd forgotten that we lost pretty much every argument and any obstacle our legal team put in place, CAS removed
The reason the UEFA ban was overturned was due to the lack of any evidence
 
When Platini first mooted the idea of FFP, my understanding is that it was to help protect us, the fans, from owners who could ruin our clubs (perhaps by chasing temporary glory, then leaving, taking the money with them).

On that basis, who has made that possibility more likely; the Glazers or the Sheikh ? I suppose you have to imagine that both (Glazers & the Sheikh) announce today that they're pulling out of the clubs next month ... which club would be worried about its future, if either ?

Possibly we'd be slightly more concerned.
But you'd also need to think back to what City were like under Thaksin / before the Sheikh took over ... there was a much greater chance then that City's debts would overwhelm them, and that no (good) buyer could be found for the club. Our future was not secure & potentially bleak.

I'd say its clear that the Sheikh"s involvement with City has made us *more* stable/ reduced the likelihood of a financial disaster hitting us.

So under the original purpose/ principles of FFP, I'd say City don't deserve the criticism/ sceptism/ investigations.

But of course, FFP has gradually morphed into something more sinister; a way to stop newcomers joining "the club" - or if somehow one does, of casting aspersions on their achievements, making them feel unwanted outsiders, and periodically trying to force them back out of "the club".
 
Corky said:
You stated Barcelona in both your examples.

If you are in £600k in debt in a £1m house and earning £200k a year it is sustainable and lot better than someone in no debt with a £30k house in Bacup on £18 k a year, who can't afford to maintain their dilapidated back to back, so it is all relative.

The PL clubs are worth far more than their debts which get paid off when they are sold to the next owner.
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This is exactly the point. Debt itself is not a problem. What is a problem is the ability to service that debt out of the revenue you earn. United can easily service their debt. even though between 2015 and 2020, they've spent nearly £400m doing that. Imagine if they'd spent that money on transfers and wages?

If you want to borrow money to buy players, that's not in itself a problem as long as you can repay that money in the agreed timeframe. That's why FFP should look forward, not backwards. What you did or didn't do 3 years ago is pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is what you've got coming in and what you've got going out in the next 12-24 months.

As I've said before, what nearly took us into administration in 2008 was the £15m second instalment on Thaksin/Sven's transfers, that was due just after the 2008 year end and which we didn't have. Had FFP been in place back then, we could well have been in the bizarre situation of passing FFP yet being in administration when we passed it. Which shows how useless FFP really is in its current form.
 
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dickie davies said:
I was bored yesterday so I read the CAS' judgement of our case
I'd forgotten that we lost pretty much every argument and any obstacle our legal team put in place, CAS removed
The reason the UEFA ban was overturned was due to the lack of any evidence
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And because we had the best lawyers money could buy while UEFA could only muster the 19-year old mate of one of the ExCo member's sons, who was a first year law student at Stoke Polytechnic.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Our old friemd Ed Thompson has resurfaced in the latest issue of When Saturday Comes. At the end of an otherwise decent article on FFP, he comes up with this:

View attachment 25820
I mean, how wrong can you be? A strongly worded letter has landed on WSC's desk. Let's see if they print it.
Click to expand...

I like the word "unprecedented" as though the attempt to ruin our club wasn't an "unprecedented" assault in itself. I also enjoy the idea that we should have allowed UEFA to employ a stronger legal team as though this was some sort of sporting event. Which to most outsiders, of course, it is.
 
Corky said:
You stated Barcelona in both your examples.

If you are in £600k in debt in a £1m house and earning £200k a year it is sustainable and lot better than someone in no debt with a £30k house in Bacup on £18 k a year, who can't afford to maintain their dilapidated back to back, so it is all relative.

The PL clubs are worth far more than their debts which get paid off when they are sold to the next owner.
Click to expand...

but its not sustainable it keeps growing and growing
if you are using your assets to maintain a level that in the end the banks will own more of your club than you.
investment and return ? manchester city owners knew it was a good business deal buying manchester city
but clubs like united and barcelona that run the debt to a point of no return make no sense

manchester city valued is around £2.5billion and turn over of around £500million a season
manchester united is valued not much more at £3billion and around the same revenue a season but have a big debt hanging around, so who is the best run club or have a better future ?

at the rate of growth and repayments percentages or re-mortgaging the debt is a never ending story
it has to stop at some point when the banks call in the debt and say enough is enough it will end up a fire sale
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Our old friemd Ed Thompson has resurfaced in the latest issue of When Saturday Comes. At the end of an otherwise decent article on FFP, he comes up with this:

View attachment 25820
I mean, how wrong can you be? A strongly worded letter has landed on WSC's desk. Let's see if they print it.
Click to expand...
Who is he and what strongly worded letter ? Yours or a club lawyers ?
 
WRicko said:
Why has this thread been more active in the last weeks nothings happening
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Because the accusations and the ongoing PL enquiry are held over the club as proof of wrongdoing as in the article cited.

And, on a wider level, the only certain outcome is that the PL, controlled by our direct rivals, is not going to come out and say "you know what, we've looked at this and Manchester City are entirely innocent of any misconduct". They cannot and will not admit that.

So the only question is what charges they will trump up and what damaging findings they will make. Then, of course, the Court proceedings start. All designed to damage the reputation of our club. I'd suggest that is reason enough to keep this thread current.
 
Corky said:
You stated Barcelona in both your examples.

If you are in £600k in debt in a £1m house and earning £200k a year it is sustainable and lot better than someone in no debt with a £30k house in Bacup on £18 k a year, who can't afford to maintain their dilapidated back to back, so it is all relative.

The PL clubs are worth far more than their debts which get paid off when they are sold to the next owner.
Click to expand...

If you add in the Cayman Island Accounts - I think we’d find United are in debt to a tune a bit higher than £600m. And there are substantive rumours the the Glazers have borrowed other monies against the United ‘asset’ - so I’m not sure we can say United are not in trouble - there’s some ‘window dressing’ going on for sure.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Our old friemd Ed Thompson has resurfaced in the latest issue of When Saturday Comes. At the end of an otherwise decent article on FFP, he comes up with this:

View attachment 25820
I mean, how wrong can you be? A strongly worded letter has landed on WSC's desk. Let's see if they print it.
Click to expand...
Again these so called journalists like to put their own spin on things to make it fit their own agenda against us. It is a classic case of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
And because we had the best lawyers money could buy while UEFA could only muster the 19-year old mate of one of the ExCo member's sons, who was a first year law student at Stoke Polytechnic.
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Nothing wrong with getting legal work experience when everyone thought their case had only one conclusion (except you of course).

To be fair very few people had the privilidge to become acquainted with the actual facts you and others presented on BM believing a biased almost universal media's version must be true.
 
nmc said:
If you add in the Cayman Island Accounts - I think we’d find United are in debt to a tune a bit higher than £600m. And there are substantive rumours the the Glazers have borrowed other monies against the United ‘asset’ - so I’m not sure we can say United are not in trouble - there’s some ‘window dressing’ going on for sure.
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The truth is, nobody except the Glazers and their inner circle is likely to know but I cannot imagine, given their type and locations, that their US malls are doing anything other than haemorrhaging serious amounts of cash. That could be crippling the group as much as united’s interest payments.
 
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