All Time Top 1100 Albums (Aerosmith - Big Ones) P265

FogBlueInSanFran said:
It’s no secret that Madonna is more PR than talent, except that her talent is PR, so therefore she actually does have colossal talent. Years of debate over whether or not her iconic status is deserved or not ultimately has to rest on her tunes and her lyrics though. Personally I think all that we’ll ever need is on The Immaculate Collection (circa 1990) save for the titanic “Ray of Light” — far and away her best song — and “Beautiful Stranger.” None of this is better than that, so the question is how close or far away is it?

This is a dance record fundamentally, which is good, but it starts far away. Did we really need yet another (but snakier) version of “Fever” with the lyrical melody copied but otherwise bearing no resemblance to the start/stop dynamics of the original (which is what made it iconic)? Answer: we did not.

“Deeper and Deeper” sounds like a Madonna song — and not a bad one at all — but I find her vocals covered up in mush on all of these opening songs as opposed to projected. She almost sounds like a back-up singer. I wish her vocals had been buried 25 feet under that mush on “Where Life Begins”, where she apparently begs for cunnilingus. Yet another opportunity for me to plug the brilliance of Liz Phair’s Exile In Guyville which has a far, far better tune on the subject of “where her love is.” Madonna’s song is neither sexy, nor clever, nor erotic, nor funny. That three and a half minutes turned me the opposite of on.

“Thief of Hearts” is yet another unsubtle set of lyrics, this time about some “woman” Madonna hates along with a strong “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM” vibe. Clearly if you piss off Madonna by trying to steal her man, she’ll — errrr — write a mediocre song about you, I guess? Chrissie Hynde or the members of L7 would just hit the “woman” over the head with a guitar.

So this is sounding pretty underwhelming, but suddenly, and unexpectedly, we find a return to the Madonna of old. “Words”, with the vocals finally mixed high as they should be, is the first and only song here that could make the next set of greatest hits in her pantheon, and has a few tricky turns of phrase I really liked and a great drive. “Rain” is not horrible either though I do prefer her sped up and not her at ballad pace, though it has the nicest harmonies on the record — quite lovely.

Anyhow, I think I agree that for Madonna this is a pretty odd mix of styles and reasonably mediocre on balance, save for one really strong one and a few tunes that could/should have been better but least knock out a groove for the Peloton (disclaimer: I do not own a Peloton). I do like the pacy drum runs scattered throughout enough to give it a generous 4/10 — by a fingernail.
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superb stuff Fog
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
It’s no secret that Madonna is more PR than talent, except that her talent is PR, so therefore she actually does have colossal talent. Years of debate over whether or not her iconic status is deserved or not ultimately has to rest on her tunes and her lyrics though. Personally I think all that we’ll ever need is on The Immaculate Collection (circa 1990) save for the titanic “Ray of Light” — far and away her best song — and “Beautiful Stranger.” None of this is better than that, so the question is how close or far away is it?

This is a dance record fundamentally, which is good, but it starts far away. Did we really need yet another (but snakier) version of “Fever” with the lyrical melody copied but otherwise bearing no resemblance to the start/stop dynamics of the original (which is what made it iconic)? Answer: we did not.

“Deeper and Deeper” sounds like a Madonna song — and not a bad one at all — but I find her vocals covered up in mush on all of these opening songs as opposed to projected. She almost sounds like a back-up singer. I wish her vocals had been buried 25 feet under that mush on “Where Life Begins”, where she apparently begs for cunnilingus. Yet another opportunity for me to plug the brilliance of Liz Phair’s Exile In Guyville which has a far, far better tune on the subject of “where her love is.” Madonna’s song is neither sexy, nor clever, nor erotic, nor funny. That three and a half minutes turned me the opposite of on.

“Thief of Hearts” is yet another unsubtle set of lyrics, this time about some “woman” Madonna hates along with a strong “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM” vibe. Clearly if you piss off Madonna by trying to steal her man, she’ll — errrr — write a mediocre song about you, I guess? Chrissie Hynde or the members of L7 would just hit the “woman” over the head with a guitar.

So this is sounding pretty underwhelming, but suddenly, and unexpectedly, we find a return to the Madonna of old. “Words”, with the vocals finally mixed high as they should be, is the first and only song here that could make the next set of greatest hits in her pantheon, and has a few tricky turns of phrase I really liked and a great drive. “Rain” is not horrible either though I do prefer her sped up and not her at ballad pace, though it has the nicest harmonies on the record — quite lovely.

Anyhow, I think I agree that for Madonna this is a pretty odd mix of styles and reasonably mediocre on balance, save for one really strong one and a few tunes that could/should have been better but least knock out a groove for the Peloton (disclaimer: I do not own a Peloton). I do like the pacy drum runs scattered throughout enough to give it a generous 4/10 — by a fingernail.
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Thoroughly enjoyable read as always - particularly liked you opening line.

I think a 4 is beyond generous.......... ;-)
 
crublue1 said:
Fair enough, but I quite like the randomness of it all.
I actually enjoy the anticipation, not knowing what we might get next.
Quality control is subjective, and Mr hammer is aware of this, hence his random number generation system he's using.
Good answer though, fair play :-)
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I agree quality control is subjective but there are loads of albums that do appear time and again on greatest album lists and virtually none of them have appeared on this thread.
 
Onholiday(somemightsay) said:
Thoroughly enjoyable read as always - particularly liked you opening line.

I think a 4 is beyond generous.......... ;-)
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Cheers OH! I like dance music, so I’m always going to give records that I’d want to hear in a club a higher rating than records with very slow beats per minute (e.g. Crosby, Cohen, Orton).
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
@Onholiday(somemightsay) and for others interested, just showing up in my Twitter feed is this good article on the creation of Remain in Light and why its important (though I think its importance is perhaps a little overstated in this piece):

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Cheers @FogBlueInSanFran - understanding the origins of an album / sound can certainly elevate it by giving it a backstory.

Couldn't read it in fully concentrated detail, but technology and effects aside, did they effectively play the 'core' or the songs and basically wait for inspiration to hit them (if that makes sense)?

Do I appreciate musicians trying something new - definitely
Do I appreciate musicians looking to fuse different cultures and ethnicities - definitely (as long as the output is 'better' than the original sound otherwise leave it alone - subjective).

It may well be that their approach unlocked a whole host avenues and possibilities for other artists that then created brilliant music (think thats pretty heavily implied in the article - in fact going off the author I'm not sure there would be any music if Talking Heads didn't create this ;-) ). It just doesn't do it for me..........

Edit: I even listened to the start of the album whilst flicking through and I still don't give a shit about looking at these hands..... :-)
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
It’s no secret that Madonna is more PR than talent, except that her talent is PR, so therefore she actually does have colossal talent. Years of debate over whether or not her iconic status is deserved or not ultimately has to rest on her tunes and her lyrics though. Personally I think all that we’ll ever need is on The Immaculate Collection (circa 1990) save for the titanic “Ray of Light” — far and away her best song — and “Beautiful Stranger.” None of this is better than that, so the question is how close or far away is it?

This is a dance record fundamentally, which is good, but it starts far away. Did we really need yet another (but snakier) version of “Fever” with the lyrical melody copied but otherwise bearing no resemblance to the start/stop dynamics of the original (which is what made it iconic)? Answer: we did not.

“Deeper and Deeper” sounds like a Madonna song — and not a bad one at all — but I find her vocals covered up in mush on all of these opening songs as opposed to projected. She almost sounds like a back-up singer. I wish her vocals had been buried 25 feet under that mush on “Where Life Begins”, where she apparently begs for cunnilingus. Yet another opportunity for me to plug the brilliance of Liz Phair’s Exile In Guyville which has a far, far better tune on the subject of “where her love is.” Madonna’s song is neither sexy, nor clever, nor erotic, nor funny. That three and a half minutes turned me the opposite of on.

“Thief of Hearts” is yet another unsubtle set of lyrics, this time about some “woman” Madonna hates along with a strong “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM” vibe. Clearly if you piss off Madonna by trying to steal her man, she’ll — errrr — write a mediocre song about you, I guess? Chrissie Hynde or the members of L7 would just hit the “woman” over the head with a guitar.

So this is sounding pretty underwhelming, but suddenly, and unexpectedly, we find a return to the Madonna of old. “Words”, with the vocals finally mixed high as they should be, is the first and only song here that could make the next set of greatest hits in her pantheon, and has a few tricky turns of phrase I really liked and a great drive. “Rain” is not horrible either though I do prefer her sped up and not her at ballad pace, though it has the nicest harmonies on the record — quite lovely.

Anyhow, I think I agree that for Madonna this is a pretty odd mix of styles and reasonably mediocre on balance, save for one really strong one and a few tunes that could/should have been better but least knock out a groove for the Peloton (disclaimer: I do not own a Peloton). I do like the pacy drum runs scattered throughout enough to give it a generous 4/10 — by a fingernail.
Click to expand...
Nicely done sir, consider my cap doffed.
 
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