Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Blue Mist]

SWIFT isn't a banking service as such. No money passes through it but it sends messages that A has to pay B a sum of money and tells them how to pay it. They then have to use a payment mechanism to physically move that money.

So the Russian banks removed will have no idea what money is due to them and when. And neither will the payer.

But if germany wants to pay for its gas surely they can just use a Russian bank that has not been removed from swift and they then transfer it ?

 

[urban genie]

In raw terms the more Russians die the better as the conflict will be over sooner.

Nearly 8000 russian personel were kilked in the second chechen war that went on for years

I really doubt numbers dead matters to Putin as long as he achieves his aims.

Only his ministers and army chiefs turning on him or an actual public revolt will deter this ****.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

But if germany wants to pay for its gas surely they can just use a Russian bank that has not been removed from swift and they then transfer it ?

I'd guess that's the plan and why not all banks were removed.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

News chanels reports saying the chechens are in Maiupol not Kyiv though.

So were they sent to both cities as their are pictures of their apparent units crossing the border but after that ??

This is what I mean in my earlier post, I see so many conflicting stories and stock photos, I have to say we have no clue what is happening on the ground tbh.

The 13 snake island coast guard officers WIth the audio of them being blown up and dead a few day ago, are being reported as having escaped and safely back on the mainland.

Yes, conflicting reports everywhere, although the one I read mentioned the general was killed,
but as you say, since then, nothing about it, just various other claims and counter claims.

 

[BobKowalski]

Looking at all these pictures or videos of Russian tanks and soldiers my one worry is these are young recruits and basic tanks.

It is known that Russia has some of thelatetest military tech, something these don't look like and hardened veterans of several conflicts.

So my worry is he has sent kids and basic equipment in a first wave to test the place and something more experienced and techinacally deadlier will arrive soon in a second wave.

Any experts on Russias present tech and army know about this

From my reading, the plan was to spearhead a lightening campaign with Special Forces/Paras and capture the main cities while been greeted as ‘liberators’. They even had police units embedded with the initial attack who would be needed to keep order with the collapse of local authorities.

The bulk of the army seems to be conscripts. Russia is casualty adverse which is why we are also now seeing Belarus and Chechnya troops.

The feeling seems to be that Russia or Putin went ahead based on his own delusions about Ukraine and Ukrainians willingness to fight.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Not really mate. There is a humanitarian crisis unfolding in Europe. We need to take in our share.

Johnson claiming it's fake news, but I'm not sure how much I trust the word of a compulsive liar. Despite what some would have you think, we are not that stretched as a country that we can't take in refugees. I'm sure we can come up with a solution. Apparently there are people wanting to join family here, in these cases they will have somewhere to stay.

There is a spare room in my house...

 

[crooky]

Looking at all these pictures or videos of Russian tanks and soldiers my one worry is these are young recruits and basic tanks.

It is known that Russia has some of thelatetest military tech, something these don't look like and hardened veterans of several conflicts.

So my worry is he has sent kids and basic equipment in a first wave to test the place and something more experienced and techinacally deadlier will arrive soon in a second wave.

Any experts on Russias present tech and army know about this

No expert but I think the old T72 tanks (first deployed in the mid 70s) is still the backbone of the Russian army so most of their forces will be using these older tanks.

I don't believe they'd go with the tactic of sending a 'lesser' force first to test the waters. It just seems like a unnecessary waste of equipment and life if those 'lesser' forces aren't up to scratch.

When the Yanks go to war even against less technologically developed countries like Iraq they send their best equipment in to get the job done as quick as possible.

 

[tregyblue61]

How is Vlad taking it?

I haven't seen his ugly, evil mug on TV for a while.

 

[mosssideblue]

There is a spare room in my house...

Mine also

 

[BlueHammer85]

Estimated 4,300 Russians troops killed in Ukraine - reports​

Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Hanna Malya has suggested that an estimated 4,300 Russian servicemen have been lost during the invasion of Ukraine.

It is understood that Moscow has lost 146 tanks, 27 aircraft and 26 helicopters in the conflict so far.

 

[BobKowalski]

Nearly 8000 russian personel were kilked in the second chechen war that went on for years

I really doubt numbers dead matters to Putin as long as he achieves his aims.

Only his ministers and army chiefs turning on him or an actual public revolt will deter this ****.

It does in Russia. A large number of casualties in a short space of time will have an impact. But I assume the scale will be concealed. Bodies interred using mobile crematoriums rather than been flown back.

If this turns into a hard slog it will also matter. Concealment will be harder, and the propaganda domestically is that there is no real resistance and Russian troops are been greeted as liberators, a fiction which becomes more difficult to sustain.

 

[bluethrunthru]

From my reading, the plan was to spearhead a lightening campaign with Special Forces/Paras and capture the main cities while been greeted as ‘liberators’. They even had police units embedded with the initial attack who would be needed to keep order with the collapse of local authorities.

The bulk of the army seems to be conscripts. Russia is casualty adverse which is why we are also now seeing Belarus and Chechnya troops.

The feeling seems to be that Russia or Putin went ahead based on his own delusions about Ukraine and Ukrainians willingness to fight.

I posted yesterday that I saw something where Putin was being reported as raging as the battle plan was a 1 - 4 day roll over of the Ukraine presumably based upon the delusions you allude to - it went tits up from night one when they failed to hold the airport outside Kyiv which was presumably a vital part of the plan being a jump off point for fresh troops equipment and supplies

 

[urban genie]

From my reading, the plan was to spearhead a lightening campaign with Special Forces/Paras and capture the main cities while been greeted as ‘liberators’. They even had police units embedded with the initial attack who would be needed to keep order with the collapse of local authorities.

The bulk of the army seems to be conscripts. Russia is casualty adverse which is why we are also now seeing Belarus and Chechnya troops.

The feeling seems to be that Russia or Putin went ahead based on his own delusions about Ukraine and Ukrainians willingness to fight.

Having looked it up the tanks they are using are T-72a, those are from the 70s-90s, not and of their new equipment and many are questioning this lack of defensive cover where Ukranian civilians are easily able to drive or walk up and chat/rant/question russian soldiers.

Seems they are being heavy handed on stategic targets in khakiv, Mariupol, Kyiv with eloie troops while in the countryside sending contracted conscripts mainly kids and old equient with a very casual non combatent attitude, as they expected no resistance.

A big miscalculation that Ukraininas would not fight back

It is quite bizzare seeing civilians and russians engaging casually in the smaller towns

 

[Chris in London]

But if it is easily by passed what is the point of stopping swift. To me it is just tub thumping. I hope I'm wrong.

It isn’t easily bypassed, but it can be bypassed.

For an analogy, think that they’ve stopped communications like email SMS and WhatsApp but they can still send first class post.

 

[JASR]

There was an American tank engineer on Twitter yesterday who was saying that tanks “look cool” but are pretty much all ancient rusting heaps of shit that aren’t actually much use.

So I inferred from that that these actually are the best tech they’ve got.

Main battle tanks (MBT) have practically reached a dead-end in their development.

The Russian T-90 (a development of the T-72) has had some incremental upgrades since it’s introduction 30 years ago. It is Russia’s MBT.

It’s supposed successor, the brand new design T-14 has been in development hell and general production limbo since 2016. Though reasonable production and deployment has started.

the US Abrams has been incrementally production upgraded since its introduction in … 1980. There doesn’t seem to be a brand new replacement on the horizon.

the uk challenger II is from 1998 and some will be upgraded in near future to III specification, the rest used as spares/scrapped.

there’s also the German Leopard 2, the French leclerc , and iirc quite a few other homegrown ones - Japan, India, Brazil …

I think the tank , or at least the MBT, is at the end of its life.

I’m surprised there isn’t a MBT drone from anyone in the works… or a medium tank drone at least. But perhaps there is at some skunkworks.

 

[Dadsupportedthem]

My missus thinks they should've just surrendered at the beginning, at least they'd still be alive with somewhere to live etc. This way many, many dead, and the City/Towns wrecked, mass evacuations of women who now don't know if their husbands are even alive. At the end of the day, they cant win.

So just give Putin exactly what he wanted then?

 

[urban genie]

Not sure how accurate they can be but the ISW tend to collate data before publishing.

This was their latest summary on saturday

 

[Bonzo Nododo]

See the International Brigade of the Spanish civil war. Made up of youngsters from all over the place.

My dad volunteered with lots of men old and young from all over Manchester and marched to London Road Station in early September 1939. No 'political cause' in their mind so they get less praise in some peoples minds for doing their bit than those who went to Spain.

 

[MCFC1993]

This **** needs getting rid of as well.

Rigged the election to win presidency, allowed Russia to launch an attack from Belarus and has now taken it upon himself to launch missiles at Ukraine.

Sanctions need placing on Belarus until he's gone and the Russian forces are no longer in Belarus.

 

[blueinsa]

Main battle tanks (MBT) have practically reached a dead-end in their development.

The Russian T-90 (a development of the T-72) has had some incremental upgrades since it’s introduction 30 years ago. It is Russia’s MBT.

It’s supposed successor, the brand new design T-14 has been in development hell and general production limbo since 2016. Though reasonable production and deployment has started.

the US Abrams has been incrementally production upgraded since its introduction in … 1980. There doesn’t seem to be a brand new replacement on the horizon.

the uk challenger II is from 1998 and some will be upgraded in near future to III specification, the rest used as spares/scrapped.

there’s also the German Leopard 2, the French leclerc , and iirc quite a few other homegrown ones - Japan, India, Brazil …

I think the tank , or at least the MBT, is at the end of its life.

I’m surprised there isn’t a MBT drone from anyone in the works… or a medium tank drone at least. But perhaps there is at some skunkworks.

Upgrades to some of the armour and its weapons and sighting systems aside, the MBT is coming to its natural end and hand held weapons systems like Javelin and the NLAW along with systems like Apache and of course, natural enemies counterparts mean that these things are now almost sitting ducks and coffins on tracks.