Russian invasion of Ukraine

Churchlawtonblue said:
Mate, I have always admired your principals, but surely you can see that the lesser of two evils is the west and the Ukrainian state in this instance and not the dictator Putin.
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Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
 
Rascal said:
I do not trust either side to be truthful, I simply do not know enough to form an opinion.

NATO as a defensive alliance should never have sought expansion, Putin is a nutjob who believes in macishmo. NATO is outdated and i would have preferred an EU defence force. Relying on the US never gives me comfort.

At the moment because I am plane geek there are 3 US airtankers circling over Romania, over the last week there has been F-17 fighters in the air being refuelled and there is a Yank spy plane over the Black Sea. Why would NATO as a defensive alliance have attack capabilities 100 miles from the Ukraine border?

I have also been to Kharkiv, one of the best cities i have ever been , full of great people and I loved it, It was amazing place to visit. I liked Ukraine it reminded me of Salford in the early 70s.

Putin though is a mad ****, putting his nuclear forces on high alert scares the fuck out of me. I do not think he will use them, i fucking hope not, because MAD means the pubs shut. What it does show though is how weak the Russian military is, which also scares me because the yanks love to get involved in a scrap against a supposed weaker force

My other fears are we have Biden who is a Hawk and Johnson who is a fucking liability, a brand new German Chancellor who has not the gravitas of mutter Merkel, and Macron who appears a bit out of his depth.

I went on my first CND march aged 11 and the movement fizzled out, beaten by the requirements of the warmongering class who make money out of weapons. I want a world with no weapons that kill people, but i am idealistic prick .
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Biden a Hawk? Ha ha ha.
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
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Why should Putin determine what happens in Ukraine, why should they not be allowed to join the EU or NATO if they want to?
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
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Are seriously you saying that their choice isn't theirs ? Really?
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
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Explain the reasoning why
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
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Surely an independent nation should be able to decide its own future mate, it’s not the Ukrainians fault they happen to be next door neighbours to Russia.

Russia is big enough as is and literally no one wants to invade them or have a war. Putin should be trying to make his own country better as it is.
 
tregyblue61 said:
The modern treaty controlling access is the 1936 Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits, which remains in force as of 2022. This Convention gives the Republic of Turkey control over warships entering the straits but guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime.
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Thank you. Very interesting. The Bosporus Straight is only 3/4 mile wide in Istanbul, and all Maritime traffic passes through it. I wonder what would happen should a Russian warship attempt to cross it
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
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Not a fan of Trump or Johnson, especially the former but when have either done anything remotely like Putin has in the last week?

This is some fucking take.
 
Rascal said:
Absolutely pal, I said Putin is ****, but i also think NATO is wrong, its not mutually exclusive as bad a **** Putin is.

I support UkraInian independence, but I also see why they should never be part of NATO or the EU.

Also i understand why Putin wants to recreate the Greater Russian federation, they were an amazingly powerful nation who we would not have won WW2 without. He wants the same as the likes of some UK politicians and some US politicians want.........Make ,,,,,,,,,,great again. Its Nationalistic bullshit and he is no different to Trump or Johnson in that regard.
Click to expand...
Nato has never in its history sought expansion. It’s always been an open door policy subject to pretty basic criteria. I assume by your comments above you’ve spent years working for nato on an operational level.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It’s act quite astonishing how badly he’s called this.

Just goes to show you how important it is, like Marcus Aurelius, having someone whisper in your ear “you are just a man”.
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It's early doors yet and I still feel like he has something up his sleeve, I can't imagine it has been this poorly planned.

Putin isn't an idiot.
 
Rascal said:
I do not trust either side to be truthful, I simply do not know enough to form an opinion.

NATO as a defensive alliance should never have sought expansion, Putin is a nutjob who believes in macishmo. NATO is outdated and i would have preferred an EU defence force. Relying on the US never gives me comfort.

At the moment because I am plane geek there are 3 US airtankers circling over Romania, over the last week there has been F-17 fighters in the air being refuelled and there is a Yank spy plane over the Black Sea. Why would NATO as a defensive alliance have attack capabilities 100 miles from the Ukraine border?

I have also been to Kharkiv, one of the best cities i have ever been , full of great people and I loved it, It was amazing place to visit. I liked Ukraine it reminded me of Salford in the early 70s.

Putin though is a mad ****, putting his nuclear forces on high alert scares the fuck out of me. I do not think he will use them, i fucking hope not, because MAD means the pubs shut. What it does show though is how weak the Russian military is, which also scares me because the yanks love to get involved in a scrap against a supposed weaker force

My other fears are we have Biden who is a Hawk and Johnson who is a fucking liability, a brand new German Chancellor who has not the gravitas of mutter Merkel, and Macron who appears a bit out of his depth.

I went on my first CND march aged 11 and the movement fizzled out, beaten by the requirements of the warmongering class who make money out of weapons. I want a world with no weapons that kill people, but i am idealistic prick .
Click to expand...
There’s only one thing you need to know and that is Russia invaded another country without any provocation and is killing and wounding civilians. Any blame being apportioned by Putin to anyone or anything other than himself is clearly false.
 
The way Ukraine has acted in the face off aggression is commendable even releasing a phone number so captured Russian soldiers families can check there ok, civilians taking up arms women helping the army and prepared to die for what they believe in a free Ukraine which is or should be the right for every human being very very humbling watching there efforts against the aggressors
 
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