Russian invasion of Ukraine

Metal Biker said:
Hiroshima
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Nagasaki
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The point IS not to suggest these bombs aren't still devastating or destructive, OR that we can simply "brush off" their usage. I hope they're never used as the cost will be unbearable. But the narrative that it'll be "armaggeddon" is a little misplaced. This isn't the 80's, things have changed, most nukes are low yield now with reduced capability to create fallout.

Plus there are fewer of them, we have better detection and capacity to destroy them once launched, with multiple sites across Europe. Russia now has too many targets, with too few nukes that would survive being shot down. the ones that would would be catastrophic; but the world survived Nakasaki and Hiroshima. In the 80's it didn't look like we would, today it's a different story. The whole point is nto to spread fear. We already know they should never be used, scaring people as to their destructive power, when we already know it, helps nobody.
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In all seriousness, I think it <warning people of the destructive power of nuclear weapons> is a fuck of sight more helpful than telling people it's really nothing to worry about and we'd get over it.
 
SWP's back said:
Ignore that old fart. He doesn’t u set stand that social media is now more often than not the first place that breaking news is reported. If it was up to him he’d be waiting for tomorrow Guardian to arrive to wait and be told what to think.
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he's right to be skeptical about certain stories coming out of this conflict, but equally - I don't think he can accept the reality of it also
 
Octavian said:
The only way Putin fires a nuke is it NATO troops are about to take Moscow.

People need to relax.
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I'm pretty relaxed.

However, the threat itself is still over and above the expected. And a risk of being enough to cause escalation that becomes self sustaining.

I didn't think he would attempt to invade Ukraine as a whole, so I'm steering away from attempting any predictions on what he would or wouldn't do.
 
Coatigan said:
What I mean is, those are not the comments she made that are reported to have inflamed Putin's rhetoric and threat with nukes.

It is supposedly her earlier comments that if he takes Ukraine and doesnt stop there, the next step would be seen as an attack on NATO countries along the Ukrainian border and NATO would have to become involved.

As I understand it. That, combined with what he sees as illegal sanctions by the west, both of which he included in his statement.



Goes without saying, not that I think either is any reason whatsoever or justification for his position, it is a ridiculous stance of his no matter what the comments were. Just pointing out there seems to be a bit of confusion on ever moving commentary.
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Ok. I see what you're saying.

I do think it's more likely to be related to her comments about British people going to fight in the Ukraine forces because they would spin this as direct foreign intervention from a NATO power.

It's all academic anyway because if this wasn't the pretext they'd make up another one.
 
Chippy_boy said:
In all seriousness, I think it <warning people of the destructive power of nuclear weapons> is a fuck of sight more helpful than telling people it's really nothing to worry about and we'd get over it.
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People already know, I assure you.

Telling them they have thousands of Tsar Bombas isn't accurate or helpful either, is it.
 
Coatigan said:
I'm pretty relaxed.

However, the threat itself is still over and above the expected. And a risk of being enough to cause escalation that becomes self sustaining.

I didn't think he would attempt to invade Ukraine as a whole, so I'm steering away from attempting any predictions on what he would or wouldn't do.
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An aid to Putin has just said they’re hoping to reach a mutually beneficial agreement on the BBC.

I don’t trust a word any of them say but the rhetoric today hasn’t been an escalation.
 
meltonblue said:
Think that’s already been confirmed as a Ukrainian tank that last control
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Any link for that? I've seen reports that it's unclear whether it's Russian or Ukrainian, but none that confirm it either way. The fact that it comes to a standstill on the car suggests that it could be though. If you were deliberately running over a car, I reckon you'd just plough on.
 
Coatigan said:
I'm pretty relaxed.

However, the threat itself is still over and above the expected. And a risk of being enough to cause escalation that becomes self sustaining.

I didn't think he would attempt to invade Ukraine as a whole, so I'm steering away from attempting any predictions on what he would or wouldn't do.
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I dont think anyone can predict what a mad man will do
 
hateutd said:
It's Ukrainian Nazis shit....
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…And?


Were you under the impression a country full of 40 million Eastern Europeans wasn’t going to have some people with questionable race politics?

Look at what we’ve seen in the football with Hungary, Sparta Prague, Bulgaria, Belarus all getting bans for racist and/or neo nazi incidents. The far right has been on the rise all across Europe.

Ukraine is not a perfect country, that’s not why the world is trying to save it, it’s got loads of problems but the people are trying to move away from them and towards the EU and “western liberal” status which would see factions like this marginalised like they are here. Part of the reason these neo nazi groups still exist is because they’re fighting the Russian backed separatists and the government has its hands full.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
In all seriousness, I think it <warning people of the destructive power of nuclear weapons> is a fuck of sight more helpful than telling people it's really nothing to worry about and we'd get over it.
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Tell you what…

If Putin uses them and ends the world I’ll give you £50, if he doesn’t and we live, you give me £50?
 
Chippy_boy said:
In all seriousness, I think it <warning people of the destructive power of nuclear weapons> is a fuck of sight more helpful than telling people it's really nothing to worry about and we'd get over it.
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To me this is more to do with showing that the idea that Russia would't use them in Ukraine as it scorches the earth for hundreds of years is a myth.

Obviously no one ever wants them used, Ever, but 1 or 2 ( Unless its Tzar Bomba levels obviously ) wont stop Russia moving into Ukraine after, they are absolutely within the Realms of possibility if Russia feel cornered in Ukraine..

A lot of people live with the idea that Nukes will never be used by Russia as in there minds 1 nuke is the end of the world, It isn't. 100 of them then yeah your getting there!, 10k of them absolutely.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Of course it isn't, and I didn't. No-one on here has said or even implied so.
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And I haven't downplayed the threat or scale of nuclear war, either, have I.

I merely pointed out that the Tsar Bomba is not in their arsenal.

This is a nothing burger. So chill.
 
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