Russian invasion of Ukraine

Vester said:
From my point of view, they dont see EU as an existential threat for them today. If EU countries would up their defense budgets by a large percentage that could certainly change in the future, but today Natos military strength is completely dependent on USA. Nato is basically just an alliance of nations USA protect today. That could of course change in the future, the power balance of the world shift over time. But for Nato to have the same military strength without USA as with USA, most members would basically have to up their defense budget with 500-1000%. As of today Russia knows that no EU country would be foolish enough to attack them, unless they have USA backing them up. They would perhaps think EU might have enough military strength to defend themselves from an attack from them, or at least enough to make it not worth while. But not the strength needed to attack them, making them a existential threat to Russia. USA (or perhaps China) are the only ones who have that strength.

Again just my opinion. What do you agree and disagree with from what I said?
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Again a mostly sensible post - in contrast to your original bullshit.

I will however point out this remark of yours as a point of rational departure:
>> As of today Russia knows that no EU country would be foolish enough to attack them, unless they have USA backing them up

WTF? No European nation whatsoever has any designs on attacking anyone. Moreover, USA wouldn't back an attack on Russia even now.

Get a fucking clue, idiot.

Russia has nuclear weapons and ICBMS. No one is going to fucking invade them!
 
nellyonthewing said:
China obtains dominance in a country by flooding it with cash whilst the Russians prefer flooding it with troops and missiles . China is already well on its way to world dominance. The inscrutable Chinese approach will win whilst Russia beats its chest and the US and Europe tremble.
We better get used to it .
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Nailed it.
 
kaz7 said:
Mariupol mayor Vadym Boichenko has said that the Russians are trying to "break" them, as Vladimir Putin's forces bombard the city.

Sky's middle east producer Zein Ja'Far, who is in Dnipro, reports on the latest from the city.

Mr Boichenko said: "These b******* couldn't find a way to break us, so now they are trying to prevent us from repairing electricity, water and warmth supply.

"They also damaged the railway connection. They destroyed the bridges, they destroyed the trains so that we could not evacuate our women, children and elderly people.

"They prevent us from getting a provision supply. They are trying to create a blockade here, just like in Leningrad.

"For seven days they have been deliberately destroying critical infrastructure of the city. We don’t have electricity, water and warmth – again! Putin’s military hordes are shelling the city and don't allow to evacuate injured, women and children.

"We are doing our best to repair the critical infrastructure as fast as possible. We are working with international institutions to create a "green corridor" for a humanitarian mission.

"We are working to provide ceasefire to repair electricity supply.

"Mariupol is still being shelled, the women, kids and elderly people are suffering. We are being exterminated as a nation.
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Vester said:
Why should I ask myself, I'm not the one saying Russia has anything to fear from Nato. I dont think they do.

I do on the other hand think Russia and Putin fear USA, and by Nato expanding more to the east, they feel like USA is more or less expanding its boarder against them. I think Putin and Russia are very concerned about this, and in no way believe the reasons being said publicly behind it. Countries are often paranoid about these kind of stuff, and dont trust what their enemies say their intentions are. Just like Americans dont trust Russia and China, they dont trust Americans.

I agree with you that Russia are acting like twats. What you fail to consider, is that from Russias point of view, they dont think they are the ones acting like twats. They think USA are the twats, by expanding their territory (thats how they see Nato) against them. From their point of view, USA is not the hero, the world police, who intervene in every countries war and brings order and freedom to the world. From their point of view, USA is the villain, bringing death and destruction all over the world in conflicts they have nothing to do with.
I'm not saying they are right, I'm just saying that Russia see themselves as the good ones, and USA as the evil.

Not the other way around as we do.
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I think the problem is Russia have always acted like twats That is the reason so many of the soviet bloc countries try to get out from under their yoke when they think they have a chance
 
Chippy_boy said:
Presumably because those two abstained in the UN vote and he thinks there's at least best chance of those 2 saying nothing and not calling him out on it?
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The problem is that there's 3 billion people who are going to be asking their governments questions about thousands of hostages, and the Chinese government and Indian government are going to have to clarify it's not true.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Yes mate, he's just been venting into the camera on Sky for ten minutes awarding medals to his dead general.
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nmc said:
Putin on Sky News now - mad as a box of frogs, utterly detached from reality. A danger to mankind.
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Time for this **** to go. All civilised nations must come together and figure out a plan on how to remove this mongrel from the world. He is clearly mad.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I'll put the ridiculous insult to one side and just say that is absolute nonsense.

I said that the longer this goes on, the more lives will be lost. At no point did I say Ukraine should surrender, and even if I did think that (I don't) then that is a matter entirely up to them.
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Found the one referencing bed, I don’t have the desire to go through your post history on this thread but pretty sure you were a do sting appeasement very early to avoid war with the rest and fuck the 40m Ukrainians.33D94324-884E-483A-8587-A480D762C3D7.png
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Thanks for your carefully regurgitated Russian propaganda. In essence that the USA is a huge threat and thus that Russian aggression - if not justified outright - is at least foreseeable.

If only the expansionist USA would stop invading it's neighbors and claiming their territory as its own. First Canada invaded and Mexico overrun and... oh, well wait a minute... I guess that didn't happen.

What about USA foreign wars?

Admittedly we fucked up big time with Iraq - under a Republican president (whom I respect, actually, but was far too willing to blame someone tangible for 9/11). Anyhow, we made a mistake - but so too did the UK.

Anyhow, that Russia somehow thinks that the USA is evil incarnate and poses an existential threat - is wrong-think. That you buy into this narrative is you simply buying into Russian justification for expansion.

Russia will float a zillion ideas in support of its excuse to expand - you've bought into the anti-USA narrative.

Russia doesn't see themselves as "the good guys" at all. Russians in support of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine - are nationalistic. It's not so-much anti-USA - though this plays some part - it's mostly - to borrow a phrase - Russia uber alles.

But go on - hate the USA and claim that Russian is at least partially justified.
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Like I said were clearly, this is what Russia thinks (IN OTHER WORDS: NOT WHAT I THINK YOU COMPLETE IDIOT HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS), and I think they are insane for doing so.
Just like I can say that Hitler thought the German was a superior people, that doesnt mean I believe it or are trying to spread German propaganda. I am just pointing out how deluded he was.

You are obviously retarded so there is no point of arguing with you anymore.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It's not necessarily what they are willing to buy from China, but what they're willing to sell to them. China rely on having massive mineral resources for all of their industry. That's why they're always so interested in Australia.
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China has vast mineral reserves, their requirement for fuel oil from other countries is a problem though.
Another reason why China would assist Ukraine perhaps?
 
Vester said:
Like I said were clearly, this is what Russia thinks (IN OTHER WORDS: NOT WHAT I THINK YOU COMPLETE IDIOT HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS), and I think they are insane for doing so.
Just like I can say that Hitler thought the German was a superior people, that doesnt mean I believe it or are trying to spread German propaganda. I am just pointing out how deluded he was.

You are obviously retarded so there is no point of arguing with you anymore.
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LOL - as a retarded person, let me again explain my retarded, simplistic view to you.

Putin is a fucking criminal. And if he can get away with it he'll invade his neighbors. Got away with Georgia and Crimea no problem. And now the Ukraine.

Why you've obsessively tied the Russian invasion of the Ukraine somehow to a fault of the USA is understandable - only if you passionately hate the USA and/or if you sheepishly buy into Russian propaganda about evil USA, existential threat, hell whatever shit Putin throws at the wall.
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I'll try once more.

You said - "this is what Russia thinks (IN OTHER WORDS: NOT WHAT I THINK YOU COMPLETE IDIOT HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS"

For the zillionth time - no, this is not what Russia thinks at all. This is simply Russian propaganda. An excuse to invade its neighbors.

Putin isn't an idiot - he's very much capable of realizing that a NATO-aligned Ukraine poses no existential threat to Russia. It does, however, pose a threat to Russian expansion. Best to invade right now.
 
Lukoil releaing a statement announcing their concern for the tragic event in Ukraine and the immediate cessation of the armed conflict through diplomatic routes.

Think thats the first big Russian company to do so. Interesting development IMO, a few more and perhaps the tide starts to turn against Putin internally.
 
mat said:


Brand opens up a great discussion here.

As it's him some will dismiss it and carry on abusing people with a different opinion to theirs in here.
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Unlike others, I watched the entire video.

He made a couple of good points but only skirted around the topic yet it was a 15 minute video. For 15 minutes, the level of insight to the points he was addressing was low. He was, in the main, rambling and not actually addressing either of the arguments he was presenting.

He also fell into the trap of presenting one side of an argument v the opposite side. He then goes on to say he actually disagrees with both arguments but doesn’t detail any reasons why, when the details of why are the important points.
 
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Can’t see the yanks getting involved especially as Biden can’t remember what he did 15 minutes ago.
 
The clowns in charge here left EU sanctions laws and left us with a weaker system so for all his bluster Johnsons Brexit ridden Circus has fucked up again

 
hello said:
Found the one referencing bed, I don’t have the desire to go through your post history on this thread but pretty sure you were a do sting appeasement very early to avoid war with the rest and fuck the 40m Ukrainians.View attachment 37741
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Well I wasn't, so you have wasted your time. And THAT, I am losing no sleep over.
 
city2 said:
Can’t see the yanks getting involved especially as Biden can’t remember what he did 15 minutes ago.
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Another Fox viewer's inane observations.

Anyhow, the USA and European nation for that matter aren't going to invade Russia. But they seem to be, so far, united, in their determination to exact economic impact in spite of repercussions to their own economy.
 
r.soleofsalford said:
I think the problem is Russia have always acted like twats That is the reason so many of the soviet bloc countries try to get out from under their yoke when they think they have a chance
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It's like the bloke that has 5 ex wives and tells you the faults of each one.

Ever thought it might be you sunshine?

Nah not me the last one said I had no self awareness cheeky fucker

Really? She said that?

Yeah can you believe it?

Err... anyhow nice weather we're having.
 
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