Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elbow beards]

It is coming close to the time we need to step in and put a stop to this, the man has lost his mind and really it is bordering on genocide right now, the world can not stand by while he carries out these atrocities.

IF we step in, it won't put a stop to it though, it will rapidly escalate it.

 

[Grassland Blue]

The Ukrainian leader is doing a great job but he needs to tone down his blasting of NATO for not helping. European countries are helping by taking in Ukrainian citizens, providing weapons and financial support. He knows the risks of what could happen should Nato countries intervene directly.

If NATO countries were to intervene it would give some credibility and justification for Putins actions and that is something we don't need!

 

[kaz7]

It is coming close to the time we need to step in and put a stop to this, the man has lost his mind and really it is bordering on genocide right now, the world can not stand by while he carries out these atrocities.

World war three unfortunately , except everyone has nukes now !

 

[Slipper One]

well everything apart from why the EU are still buying loads of gas and oil from the cunts, and still allowing some of their biggest banks to operate on Swift. Effective sanctions my fucking arse

That's a very simplistic armchair view. There would be good reasons why gas and oil supplies can't suddenly be cut off and why it's advisable to allow at least minimal banking transactions.

You're talking about countries operating and being responsible for millions of it's citizens, this is a little more complex than banning somebody from the local pub.

 

[mosssideblue]

It is coming close to the time we need to step in and put a stop to this, the man has lost his mind and really it is bordering on genocide right now, the world can not stand by while he carries out these atrocities.

Totally agree, it's harrowing watching innocence being slaughtered by a nutter.

 

[Grassland Blue]

I'm probably outnumbered on this one but I'm in the 'call his bluff' camp. It's called mutually assured destruction for a reason. Give 48 hours for indication of a withdrawal or a peacekeeping force will be sent in and make it clear that force will be used but only as far as the borders. Put forces in the west of Ukraine and use that as a base of operations. The Russian military is clearly in too weak a place to fight on the front foot and Putin isn't stupid enough to go nuclear.

That's quite somè gamble...

 

[west didsblue]

Merely responding to the misleading drivel about sanctions.

With more misleading drivel

 

[Kippaxpete]

I can see why you would say that, but it isn't really, at least not according to the wiki, which we all know is infallible

Socialist market economy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Economists generally refer to China as a socialist market economy i.e. one in which a dominant state-owned enterprises sector exists in parallel with market capitalism and private ownership. Consequently, it's not particularly helpful to draw a direct comparison in support of your argument.

 

[kaz7]

IMF met today , ukraine has requested a billion dollars

Russians didnt stick to the ceasefire so the 200.000 people that were due to get out are stuck there and mariupol is now under heavy attack again

lots of arguements could go in other threads , imo

 

[mosssideblue]

IF we step in, it won't put a stop to it though, it will rapidly escalate it.

It may or it may not, but as he said, the world simply cannot watch this continue to unfold.

 

[flook]

It is coming close to the time we need to step in and put a stop to this, the man has lost his mind and really it is bordering on genocide right now, the world can not stand by while he carries out these atrocities.

I don't believe the west can intervene overtly, the threat of nuclear response from Putin is too great. I do believe however that there must be a way to intervene covertly, the question is whether that too is too big a risk, and we on here are in no position to call that.

 

[bluealf]

IF we step in, it won't put a stop to it though, it will rapidly escalate it.

So we keep standing by while he annihilates Ukraine and then what, start trading with Russia again next year?

If it leads to an escalated war then so be it, you can not let dictators do this, if nuclear weapons existed in 1939 would the world have sat ideally by while Hitler killed every fucking Jew he could get his hands on?

There isn't a lot of difference right about now, he is murdering innocent people while we watch on the news, trembling he may or may not press the button.

Will we still be trembling when he rolls into Finland, Georgia and whichever other country he fancies taking back into Russian hands.

 

[Scottyboi]

State of that

 

[bumbleblue]

 

[Keith Moncrieff]

Russian Foreign Minister said Russia won’t forget the support for Ukraine from the U.K..
Fucking good!!!! Absolute shower of cunts

 

[urban genie]

The problem, and why people get annoyed is this.

Poster 1 - here's my opinion/article that says this.

Poster 2, 3, 4, 5 - Oh that's actually not true, here's a long, sourced comment explaining why.

Poster 1 doesn't reply or acknowledge at all.

Poster 1 (12 hours or 2 days later) - Here's my unchanged opinion and another incredibly dubious source I found that agrees with me.

1150 pages in people get bored of it from the same half dozen posters and recognise that they aren't trying to have a debate, or learn more.

That is very common on this forum from many a poster tbf.

Not just on this thread.

We have had repeeated reposting of proved fake acounts of events from the war made by people on twiter that have even been said to be wrong but posted again.
That annoys me more than rascals or others posting daft opinion pieces framed to their opinion.

Anyway this is a debate from yesterday and I am more concerned on what is hapening in Ukraine not the morning star so I will refocus on the topic at hand and not derail the thread.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

This might be one of the defining photographs of the war if there's a version that shows the soldier's face.

Russia's airforce losses are becoming completely untenable.

Always a bit dubious about losses but that Oryx site can be pretty good. Relies on meta data photos & vids to verify, and was pretty accurate regarding the Syrian conflict.

Current list of losses here
Attack On Europe: Documenting Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - Oryx (oryxspioenkop.com)

Obviously Ukrainian losses under represented due to Russia banning soldiers in 2014 using their phones to take footage, and a lot of their losses now being in Russia held ground.

 

[bluealf]

World war three unfortunately , except everyone has nukes now !

It would be world war 3 with or without nuclear weapons fired.

So the solution is to sit and watch one country with nuclear weapons do whatever the fuck they want as he says I am readying my nuclear armament and like I said, Georgia next, Finland? Do we just keep watching on the news?

 

[urban genie]

World war three unfortunately , except everyone has nukes now !

The swiss don't

 

[inchy14]

Not if it’s a negroni.

That pass at Craven Cottage…..