Russian invasion of Ukraine

Churchlawtonblue said:
Then you miss the posts that you want to read, I thought you tried to you kept people on topic Ric.
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If everyone practiced what they preached it’d certainly make things easier.

Churchlawtonblue said:
Did Russian money only start coming into London after 2010? I think Blair and Brown's governments were just as complicit in welcoming dirty Russian Oligarchs.
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Churchlawtonblue said:
Macron true to form for the French rolling over in the face of tyranny.
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west didsblue said:
Yes their involvement has been purely self serving and unhelpful. It doesn’t mean they aren’t potentially a key player. They are deliberately choosing not to exercise their influence and that’s shameful.
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China have blocked the premier league being broadcast because of teams showing support for Ukraine. It’s clear China are on Russia’s side and probably have secret economic/trade agreements in place with them.
 
blueinsa said:
Totally agree but I’m of the opinion we have a myriad of threads in which to discuss them rather than this one.

Brexit, party donations, political influence are worthy topics in the political forum but this thread should be free of the usual circular arguments.
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If it's the same old rhetoric, sure.

But there's a point to be made that UK/central European politics, all sides of the board, have been influenced by Russian money/propaganda, which gave Putin the confidence/arrogance to do this. There's definitely certain parts of that that belong in here, because influence is relative to response, sanctions, therefore what people believe may happen within this conflict.

However I do agree, there's posts again on all sides, that simply use this situation to push a very specific agenda, which is wrong.
 
Bluemoon115 said:
If it's the same old rhetoric, sure.

But there's a point to be made that UK/central European politics, all sides of the board, have been influenced by Russian money/propaganda, which gave Putin the confidence/arrogance to do this. There's definitely certain parts of that that belong in here, because influence is relative to response, sanctions, therefore what people believe may happen within this conflict.

However I do agree, there's posts again on all sides, that simply use this situation to push a very specific agenda, which is wrong.
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Even if we charge someone with investigating corruption and eventually prosecuting those involved in bribery and corruption it would just mean meetings and hearings and pontification, Russian money, Chinese money and even American money from the thieves in the big house.

At least we could wait to get rid of Putin before we start pointing fingers and washing our dirty laundry in public which is what Putin wants.
 
mexico1970 said:
Even if we charge someone with investigating corruption and eventually prosecuting those involved in bribery and corruption it would just mean meetings and hearings and pontification, Russian money, Chinese money and even American money from the thieves in the big house.

At least we could wait to get rid of Putin before we start pointing fingers and washing our dirty laundry in public which is what Putin wants.
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If we were The Hauge, UN, EU, Parliament or Scotland Yard, sure.

This is a forum that allows a reasonable amount of debate. Us discussing something here doesn't distract from anything, which was my point. All cards should be on the table, as long as it's about what's going on in Ukraine, not using it as a crutch for an agenda.

As a (moderate) lefty myself, I'm fucking thrilled that the west has come together to go against this fucking tyrant.
 
bluethrunthru said:
So Germany is increasing its defence budget to over 2% of GDP and exporting arms to a war zone for the first time since the 1940's - in Finland there is a push to join NATO and Sweden considering the same - Mad Vlad is achieving the exact opposite of what he set out to do
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He made a massive ploy to destabilise the west, but now it counts, everyone has forgotten the petty squabbles and come together, the likes of which have never been seen.
 
bluethrunthru said:
So Germany is increasing its defence budget to over 2% of GDP and exporting arms to a war zone for the first time since the 1940's - in Finland there is a push to join NATO and Sweden considering the same - Mad Vlad is achieving the exact opposite of what he set out to do
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Unintended consequences and all that. The problem is that western foreign policy is just as vulnerable to this unpredictable chaos. Who could have seen that arming the Mujahedeen from 79-89 would lead to 9/11? Sometimes I think it's a case of every action resulting in equal and opposite reaction - this will also apply to the consequences of a rapidly expanding NATO.
 
If you have got £500 cash you could pick up a football club or a super yacht on the cheap - seriously if you were crewing one of these superyachts owned by an oligarch would you be hanging around? I mean no matter how good your wages are you are unlikely to be paid them anyway.

Meanwhile Raab is "building up legal cases " to confiscate stuff

 
Churchlawtonblue said:
It's boring, in so far far as it's the same old protagonists with their boring placards turning up in every thread when their are much more important things to read, report and discuss.
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Not really sure who you’re referring to there. I would argue that our inability or inaction to sanction more widely is incredibly important in the current situation though. It might be boring to you but it’s the main weapon we bring in this war and so far we’ve turned it into a rusty spoon.
 
meltonblue said:
Not really sure who you’re referring to there. I would argue that our inability or inaction to sanction more widely is incredibly important in the current situation though. It might be boring to you but it’s the main weapon we bring in this war and so far we’ve turned it into a rusty spoon.
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We're all (all nations) struggling to apply these sanctions as far as I can tell. Russian citizens who in many cases suddenly and mysteriously became very rich in the 90's have bought their way into the property, energy and leisure sectors across Europe over the last 30 years.
 
Ric said:
If everyone practiced what they preached it’d certainly make things easier.
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Point noted, but I wouldn't really say 2 posts about different topics admittedly slightly off topic equates to dozens about Johnson from the same protagonists. I'm no fan of Johnson but sometimes it does derail the thread.
 
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Psychedelic Casual said:
You're moaning about this but you’re bloody loving the confrontation side of having posted it, since you’re only really replying to or talking about the people who are being most confrontational about you posting it.

I took the time to reply to your post with a variety of different reasons and political and economic angles for why it’s not a credible argument, and you ignored it. Why?… because I don’t think you really posted it for debate.

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I do not have a degree in twitter like SWPs Back, so didn't think it was my place to reply.
 
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