Russian invasion of Ukraine

The only thing giving me hope in all of this is that there must be people on both sides of this conflict in a position to stop this going to a Nuclear level, I am sure that 99% of the Russian population would rather this gets resolved peacefully rather than seeing mass destruction.

Like in the film Sum of all fears, there will be back channels that are being kept open.
 
Vic said:
Seized?

Would that be because we have more Russian money than the rest of the EU?

Does it include donations to the Tory party?
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Sadly ‘appeasement’ by Russian money isn’t limited to the conservatives - it has been mainly them for the past decade or so, but prior to that mandelson (and others) had very dubious associations with some oligarchs.

‘Soft’ corruption and influence runs deep in politics.
Politicians should, controversially, be paid more, but with the complete banning of lobbying, freebies, expenses and highly dubious ‘fact-finding’ jaunts.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Not really the time for division now, is it.
Plenty of analysis and if I may say, over analysis, in many of the political threads and beyond, but whether we agree that Putin designed this division or not, hindsight doesn’t move the current situation forward. Agreement on a joint approach is the most important thing. Reflection and lessons learned can hopefully be reviewed after the crisis is dealt with.
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Excellent post.
I would prefer discussion on what’s happening, what could happen and what the end game might look like.
I would also like to think we are helping our fellow blues who are mentally affected by the current situation.
Division and some arguments here are just a microcosm of how Putin has managed To influence us.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
So a load of posters are more interested in domestic and EU politics than the atrocities in Ukraine.

btw I think the help being given by many Polish people to many hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians is great. Compassion is beating politics there and in several other Countries bordering the Ukraine.
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Well said.
 
Rascal said:
Missed my point totally, I am not for a start residing in Russia.

I got abuse for an article I posted, an article I did not endorse or show support for. That was not pushing any line it was putting an alternative perspective which was dismissed with utter contempt. It being dismissed and me being called an idiot for posting it has zero to do with autocratic dictatorships or the Kremlin line.

If you cannot offer alternative critiques to a situation then it becomes the autocracy you suggest. If contrariness is posting an alternative perspective then are we not in danger of becoming the exact thing that you suggest happens in Putin's regime. As for being a twat, that is well established on here because I dare to post against the established norms and I am proud to announce to all and sundry that I am a Socialist.

For the record I have a long history on here of being anti capitalist and anti imperialist. This forum is swamped with Pro Capitalists and as Lenin suggested Imperialism is the highest form of Capitalism surely you can see that Putin is is an Imperialist, NATO are Imperialists and the capitalism is the only winner of this very sad war. We have seen the pressure in this country put on the Stop the War movement, threats to participants and bans from the the Labour Party of all places. Have you wondered why that is? Are you happy for alternative voices in this country, a supposedly liberal democracy, to be effectively closed down.

For the record again, I have called Putin a ****, because he is an Imperialist, I have been to Ukraine and loved the place and people, I am anti war, not pro war. We though here whether you agree or not are using propaganda, the attack on the nuclear power station being a prime example. We do not hear of Ukraine closing down TV stations or jailing opposition leaders, we hear Putin does, is either side angelic, no. They are both autocratic.

Now we have the spectre of a no fly zone being imposed by NATO, a defensive alliance imposing a no fly zone on a country that is not a member, but NATO has history of that. Former Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq. Do we really want Nuclear War

Peter Hitchens wrote in the Mail, the acceptable face of BM commentariat the following

PETER HITCHENS: I saw what was coming. That's why I won't join this carnival of hypocrisy | Daily Mail Online

When I am posting links from BMs paper of choice maybe posters will read it.
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Hitchens was right about Iraq before the invasion but he’s been proven very wrong with this. His line for the last few years was that Putin wasn’t the enemy and Russia wasn’t to be feared.Now he’s having to backtrack enormously and cover his own arse for a complete misjudge of character.

You can find my posts 8 weeks ago saying the amassing of troops on the border was posturing to the West and I said there wouldn’t be a full scale war, which I also got wrong but I never said Putin wasn’t the enemy. I just didn’t think he was mad enough to do this.

Hitchens actually did a university talk a few years ago about how he liked Putin. He’s got it wrong and would be best just admitting it.
 
Protein Junkie said:
Excellent post.
I would prefer discussion on what’s happening, what could happen and what the end game might look like.
I would also like to think we are helping our fellow blues who are mentally affected by the current situation.
Division and some arguments here are just a microcosm of how Putin has managed To influence us.
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The immediate thing we can do over here is donate money to the Red Cross. That’s what the Irish Red Cross are saying.
They can get supplies on the ground in the neighbouring countries of Poland and Hungary etc. through the international Red Cross. They know what is required and where to source it.

A lot of people over here were donating all kinds of items, but the logistics of getting supplies to the front from here doesn’t make that practical.

There may be a call for host families for refugees soon and a lot of people have expressed interest in doing that also.
 
Vic said:
If you're asking me if I trust the Rees-Mogg figures, I don't.

Perhaps the posters repeating them are the ones who should be enlightening us.
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No I never asked if you trust Rees Mogg figures where's that from dear God you were prattling on about the UK having more Russian money to Seize is it true I doubt it very much but prepared to hear if you know better. I'd Check how much Cyprus, Malta and Switzerland have first though.
but I feel rather than slagging off the UK it would be better to concentrate on the atrocities being committed in Ukraine by our former Russian friends.
 
Tuearts right boot said:
A very blinkered and sweeping statement there and I would imagine no where near correct.
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It was in relation to two particular posters who were always vocally anti-EU who seemed intent on slagging off the Germans without full knowledge of the facts. In retrospect it was a daft thing for me to say because it’s caused a needless distraction. Our EU status is irrelevant to this crisis.
 
Octavian said:
Hitchens was right about Iraq before the invasion but he’s been proven very wrong with this. His line for the last few years was that Putin wasn’t the enemy and Russia wasn’t to be feared.Now he’s having to backtrack enormously and cover his own arse for a complete misjudge of character.

You can find my posts 8 weeks ago saying the amassing of troops on the border was posturing to the West and I said there wouldn’t be a full scale war, which I also got wrong but I never said Putin wasn’t the enemy. I just didn’t think he was mad enough to do this.

Hitchens actually did a university talk a few years ago about how he liked Putin. He’s got it wrong and would be best just admitting it.
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Liked for the post and especially liked for the ‘I was wrong’ admitting.
 
Octavian said:
Hitchens was right about Iraq before the invasion but he’s been proven very wrong with this. His line for the last few years was that Putin wasn’t the enemy and Russia wasn’t to be feared.Now he’s having to backtrack enormously and cover his own arse for a complete misjudge of character.

You can find my posts 8 weeks ago saying the amassing of troops on the border was posturing to the West and I said there wouldn’t be a full scale war, which I also got wrong but I never said Putin wasn’t the enemy. I just didn’t think he was mad enough to do this.

Hitchens actually did a university talk a few years ago about how he liked Putin. He’s got it wrong and would be best just admitting it.
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Peter hitchens is one the most nauseating, snobby, snivelling cunts who shouts down and over speaks people who don't agree with him. We lost the wrong hitchens, imo.
 
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