Russian invasion of Ukraine

BlueHammer85 said:
www.theguardian.com

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

‘When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.’
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This happened because the pro-Russian President threw all the opposition leaders in gaol after he got into power in an election that was just like all the others in Ukraine this century - fraught with Russian meddling. He amended the Ukraine budget so that 46% of it was to be spent on the more Russian-ethnic Donbas region when it only has 11% of the population. He went along to a summit to sign the papers for Ukraine to join the EU only to turn up and not sign anything and then joined a customs union with Russia-Belarus-Kazakhstan which Ukrainians didn’t want (even the more Russian-ethnic Donbas region didn’t want it and were slightly in favour of joining the EU, the country as a whole was 65% in favour of joining the EU). Then in the 2014 elections some polling stations had to recount and in some cancel polling because of election fraud… they overthrew a corrupt Russian puppet.
 
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I was worried last week about nuclear war. The more I see the poor fuckers in the Ukraine the more angrier and angrier I get. Getting to the point I'm thinking we should just flattern the cunts and have done with it.
 
Corky said:
It is like saying Johnston is US imposed by Trump. We still got to decide for ourselves in the end.
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Yes, although Johnson's campaign was bankrolled by Russians, as was the Brexit campaign that brought him to power. Funny old world.
 
Nick_1985 said:
I was worried last week about nuclear war. The more I see the poor fuckers in the Ukraine the more angrier and angrier I get. Getting to the point I'm thinking we should just flattern the cunts and have done with it.
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As shocking as it is, nuclear war would kill every man women and child in Europe and North America.
 
domalino said:
Brazen liar?

He claims the government is full of neo-nazis and “So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators

His linked article mentions the far right party Svoboda… who have 1 seat out of 450 in the parliament.

Andriy Parubiy is the lead name…he’s been voted out of Ukrainian politics.

Dmytro Yarosh another far right person was voted out of parliament in 2019.

Everyone in the article he links to to prove how Ukraine is full of neo-nazis has been voted out.

What happened in 2014 is that the public voted to join the EU, the parliament voted to join the EU and the government and president said….no actually we’re teaming up with Russia.

It is true that when the people had to rise up against the corrupt and violent government the far right played a big role because they were armed. Since 2014 however, every single time one of them comes up for re-election they get kicked out because the normal people of Ukraine aren’t right wing and it’s a democracy now.


He does correctly say the revolution was unconstitutional - although he omitted that’s because the Pro-Russian government had suspended the constitution so there was no constitutional method available.

The thing that annoys me is that I’m no where near an expert on this stuff, I’ve only been reading about it in earnest for 3 weeks, but even I can spot the bullshit in the 2 contrarian takes posted today, so why can’t the Guardian at least apply some editorial standards to their op-Ed’s or offer a response from an actual expert?
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The Grauniad proudly proclaims that the article is 7 years old, as though it was a perfect prophesy. Seven years old and still full of bullshit.
 
Octavian said:
Ah yes, Seamus Milne, the far left crank who was Corbyn’s boss throughout his time as Labour leader.

What is it with the far left and right that makes the cunts want to defend Russia so much?
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The far left and far right hate our way of living. Despite coming from here, they hate the West, they hate moderate politics, they hate the majority of their fellow citizens… they defend and support anything that could see a destruction of the West so that their dangerous extremist bollocks has a greater chance of overthrowing our society and their communism or fascism coming into power.

Both extremes will likely be rubbing their hands at the moment, with barely a thought about the people in Ukraine.
 
Ukraine demanding planes or close the skies. My feeling is we will give them the planes. The pressure to do something will begin to tell and giving them planes is the easier route.

Not saying we want to give them planes, but images of civilians getting shelled and bombed will be difficult to ignore.
 
Grassland Blue said:
The Chinese are doing what they believe are in their best interests.
They rub along with Russia of necessity and do not want to be seen as taking sides in this terrible state of affairs.
I think that China will soon be forced to take sides though.
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Hope not mate
 
domalino said:
Brazen liar?

He claims the government is full of neo-nazis and “So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators

His linked article mentions the far right party Svoboda… who have 1 seat out of 450 in the parliament.

Andriy Parubiy is the lead name…he’s been voted out of Ukrainian politics.

Dmytro Yarosh another far right person was voted out of parliament in 2019.

Everyone in the article he links to to prove how Ukraine is full of neo-nazis has been voted out.

What happened in 2014 is that the public voted to join the EU, the parliament voted to join the EU and the government and president said….no actually we’re teaming up with Russia.

It is true that when the people had to rise up against the corrupt and violent government the far right played a big role because they were armed. Since 2014 however, every single time one of them comes up for re-election they get kicked out because the normal people of Ukraine aren’t right wing and it’s a democracy now.


He does correctly say the revolution was unconstitutional - although he omitted that’s because the Pro-Russian government had suspended the constitution so there was no constitutional method available.

The thing that annoys me is that I’m no where near an expert on this stuff, I’ve only been reading about it in earnest for 3 weeks, but even I can spot the bullshit in the 2 contrarian takes posted today, so why can’t the Guardian at least apply some editorial standards to their op-Ed’s or offer a response from an actual expert?
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Because it’s full of left wing cranks, like the mail is full of right wing cranks.
 
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