Liverpool FA Cup s/f (N) | Post Match Thread

[Scaley]

The uncomfortable truth for a lot of people is that a greater number of people just don't care about the domestic cups if their own team is no longer involved.

There was a time when the FA Cup was indeed a special competition but the efforts of the FA, managers and broadcasters have reduced the competition to a shadow of its former self. There is no doubt that it was the biggest competition in its own right up until the MOTD era, and then at least the equal of the First Division up until the Premier League era. It is now firmly third place in the pecking order or, in Pep's case, sometimes fourth place.

Broadly speaking, however, top-level football is a two-tier hierarchy - the PL and CL occupy the top tier and the domestic cups occupy the bottom tier. Commercial realities have only made this chasm more noticeable. Modern football is such that there is little recognition for winning the domestic cups. There was a time when people could tell you everything about every postwar FA Cup final - scorelines, goalscorers, captains, etc. Can anyone really reel off the winners and details about the finals from the last 15 years without really having to think hard?

The point here is that the game is full of people who were not brought up on the FA Cup. Pep Guardiola is one of those people. It's really not his fault that he doesn't place as much emphasis on winning the FA Cup as some fans would like. He is ultimately judged on his ability to deliver league titles and Champions League trophies by his employers and the football world alike.

Domestic cups can be the icing on a title-winning cake (think 2014, 2018, 2019 and 2021) but in isolation they have very little value. Our 2019/20 season was not regarded as a success even though we won the League Cup that season.

So Pep had a decision to make - rest our key players after a gruelling tie in Madrid in a competition everyone says he needs to win, or play them with a real risk of fatigue or injuries jeopardising the competitions against which he is ultimately judged. Even in the latter scenario, he has to be conscious of the fact that he might still not win.

I was at Wembley yesterday and was disappointed with how things turned out, but I do see Pep's point-of-view. He has assembled a really talented group of players but the depth is not what it was three years ago. When he put out a strong team at Swindon in the 3rd round, he could not have known what would have happened in April. Well, we got to April and found that circumstances had transpired against us; we were up against an excellent opponent that was well-rested and in a better position to play its strongest available team. The manager felt that he had to make a decision that was in the best interests of the bigger picture and the more pressing priorities. I might not like it, but I understand and respect his choices.

Some great points and I have to agree about the FA Cup and how the occasion has been watered down. I remember as a kid in the 70’s the occasion had none stop coverage from mid morning to the trophy presentation. Used to fall on the same day as the Reddish Carnival, watch the build up, watch the carnival, have an hour with the Dads in The Railway, pub shut at three, everyone back to watch the final, happy days!

 

[mick10]

A few reflections on the drive home back to Altrincham. 1. We looked jaded. Understandably so. Even the players who didn't play in the game midweek would have been affected by the travel and I feared on the way to the game that we might not put in the kind of high energy, high commitment performance that we are used to in big games. We had a battle (literally) on Tuesday and their 1st XI put their feet up all week and it showed. 2. Steffen is our Cup goalkeeper just as Claudio and Willy have been in the past and we know that before the season starts. It gives the backup an incentive to train hard and feel part of the team ethos that City have clearly developed under Pep. He had a shocker for the 2nd goal, he obviously isn't as good as Eddy and it will be said that he cost us the game but I have no issues over selection and no beef with Pep for picking him. It's easy to point fingers when things don't go your way. 3. Fern is moving on at the right time. I love the guy, we will definitely miss his experience around the place and he could still do a job for someone in a lesser, slower league but his legs have gone at this level. 4. Jesus, Zinchenko and the other players that are getting hammered on here for not being good enough are good enough...they just aren't in our best XI which we need to play against Liverpool's best XI. They are about as good a backup player as you are likely to get and are key men for us in the run in against teams that aren't Liverpool. 5. We are still a very, very good football team and we are capable of winning every game between now and the end of the season. 6. Ake is looking like £40m well spent.

Really disappointing first half in which we didn't get going at all but stay calm Blues, be dignified in defeat and if you are feeling down just remember that this period of dominance will not last forever and make sure that you enjoy every single minute of it.....even the down moments.

See you all on Wed and in Madrid! CTID

Smashing post

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Good post

Hypothetical question.

Do you think Pep would have played our first team if City had played Benfica at home, whilst Liverpool played Atletico away?

I think Pep would have still gone with Steffan and the team he picked. Pep wouldn't have done a Klopp and picked his 1st team.

You're correct, Pep doesn't see the FA Cup as a must win compared to the PL and CL. But to lose 3 FA Cup Semi-Finals in a row is frustrating and disappointing.

I think getting us to the semi’s is his safety net in case we lose in Europe. It becomes priority number 3 when we dont lose. To be honest the Prem league and FA don’t help matters by scheduling the games in the middle of European games and scheduling City and Liverpool for the weekend before. The dippers got lucky with the European draw but did the job in the first leg which gave them the leeway to play a weakened side in the second. We didn’t have that luxury but had Gundogan scored that simple chance in Madrid, that second half would have been a whole lot easier. I don’t rate the league cup or fa cup as any different nowadays. Believe it or not, the FA Cup has only been won by teams other than City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd and Liverpool 3 times in the last 25 years. It’s not the open spectacle the BBC want us to think it is.

However, knowing this, I think it’s going to be a big ask to expect 30,000 plus people to buy tickets for the next one, knowing that this may be the case.

 

[Elliot houghton]

What's with that banner which City put up every year at Wembley looks terrible much prefer to be able to hang flags across the stand

 

[John Wayne]

Accept that argument-but Pep certainly tried to emphasise the importance of the Carabao Cup...So a bit disingenuous.

Yes - as an important springboard to other things. He's done the same for the Community Shield but at the same time played Edozie and Gomes.

 

[Vic]

A few reflections on the drive home back to Altrincham. 1. We looked jaded. Understandably so. Even the players who didn't play in the game midweek would have been affected by the travel and I feared on the way to the game that we might not put in the kind of high energy, high commitment performance that we are used to in big games. We had a battle (literally) on Tuesday and their 1st XI put their feet up all week and it showed. 2. Steffen is our Cup goalkeeper just as Claudio and Willy have been in the past and we know that before the season starts. It gives the backup an incentive to train hard and feel part of the team ethos that City have clearly developed under Pep. He had a shocker for the 2nd goal, he obviously isn't as good as Eddy and it will be said that he cost us the game but I have no issues over selection and no beef with Pep for picking him. It's easy to point fingers when things don't go your way. 3. Fern is moving on at the right time. I love the guy, we will definitely miss his experience around the place and he could still do a job for someone in a lesser, slower league but his legs have gone at this level. 4. Jesus, Zinchenko and the other players that are getting hammered on here for not being good enough are good enough...they just aren't in our best XI which we need to play against Liverpool's best XI. They are about as good a backup player as you are likely to get and are key men for us in the run in against teams that aren't Liverpool. 5. We are still a very, very good football team and we are capable of winning every game between now and the end of the season. 6. Ake is looking like £40m well spent.

Really disappointing first half in which we didn't get going at all but stay calm Blues, be dignified in defeat and if you are feeling down just remember that this period of dominance will not last forever and make sure that you enjoy every single minute of it.....even the down moments.

See you all on Wed and in Madrid! CTID

Good post.

Has anyone else been brave enough (or daft enough) and watched it again? We were bad (compared to usual) but not that bad, and Liverpool certainly weren't that good. Not 3 goals better at half-time.

 

[John Wayne]

Good post

Hypothetical question.

Do you think Pep would have played our first team if City had played Benfica at home, whilst Liverpool played Atletico away?

I think Pep would have still gone with Steffan and the team he picked. Pep wouldn't have done a Klopp and picked his 1st team.

You're correct, Pep doesn't see the FA Cup as a must win compared to the PL and CL. But to lose 3 FA Cup Semi-Finals in a row is frustrating and disappointing.

Yes, of course it is disappointing.

To answer your hypothetical question, I think Pep would not have picked his first team but I think he may have gone stronger than he did yesterday.

I think it's important to state that Pep has won the FA Cup before (and in style). Prior to this season, Klopp's record and attitude to the competition was abysmal.

 

[John Wayne]

It astounds me that other fans are making fun of us not fully selling our allocation. We’re the only club in the world who will be made fun of for having a local, loyal and, for the majority, working class fanbase who cannot afford to travel to Madrid and then travel to London (when there is no trains) in the space of a few days. I wish rival fans understood the context to what was going on but can’t change some people.

Very good point well made, but these people only do it because they are finding fewer and fewer ways by which to score points. I should imagine that a sizeable number of these fans of other clubs have never seen an energy bill in their lives, let alone paid one.

 

[stan bowles]

Because the sports media on this country are sh*t scared of upsetting the Scousers.

One Journalist told the truth and the Scousers hounded him out of his job. He was eventually sacked by his employers. He is still fighting a case for unfair dismissal.

I've been of the same opinion for a fair while now. Journalists are literally scared - for the safety of themselves, their families and their livelihoods of saying anything negative about Liverpool FC. They know they would be tracked down and they know the depths the scum elements of that fan base would stoop to to make their lives hell for evermore. That's why you'll never hear Winter, Holt, Roan, Harris ever say anything negative about them.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Didn't they play Blue Moon immediately before the dirge?

They did, but the BBC production team fucked about with the audio.