Full backs / Wing Backs

[ancoats]

OK, pep already said no new signings in the winter window, BUT if a very good offer comes in for one of our 4 centre backs, somebody like AKE lets say we get a £70million offer, should we cash in and sign a left back/wing back or right back/wing back or both,I hate watching us play a cover player or 4 centre backs at times ? It's like driving a top of the range sport scar with a flat tyre,

I will say pep needs a full deck to play the big games, has he had a full squad to pick the player in his role we signed him for in the first place, Liverpool always rip us to bits down the left side with Salah, also others in Champions League do the same, Pep has to pick a cover player even when Cancelo plays at left back, like in the villa game last season it was so easy to defend against us until Zinchenko played there

for me, it's a simple answer, sign a new full back/wing back first, then let's see, even if one of the young players goes on loan to fit somebody in it's got to be done

 

[Bobby the blue]

OK, pep already said no new signings in the winter window, BUT if a very good offer comes in for one of our 4 centre backs, somebody like AKE lets say we get a £70million offer, should we cash in and sign a left back/wing back or right back/wing back or both,I hate watching us play a cover player or 4 centre backs at times ? It's like driving a top of the range sport scar with a flat tyre,

I will say pep needs a full deck to play the big games, has he had a full squad to pick the player in his role we signed him for in the first place, Liverpool always rip us to bits down the left side with Salah, also others in Champions League do the same, Pep has to pick a cover player even when Cancelo plays at left back, like in the villa game last season it was so easy to defend against us until Zinchenko played there

for me, it's a simple answer, sign a new full back/wing back first, then let's see, even if one of the young players goes on loan to fit somebody in it's got to be done

It seems simple but the reality is there is a lack of quality full backs out there.

I totally agree with you in that we need some full backs. At or we have two right backs and a midfielder who has been converted to the left back position.

Add in that worryingly Walker was looking like he had lost a bit of his pace and appears to be suffering injuries a bit more frequently in the last year and then Cancelo who is great going forward but lacks in the defensive department.

Lewis looks ok but as harsh as it sounds I wouldn’t be pinning all my hopes that he is going to be the answer. The same for Wilson-esbrand.

I know we are looking at the midfield area and possibly the wide areas but for me we are in need of some full backs.

I also think having 5 class centre backs and not one natural left back is a strange situation to be in.

 

[richards30]

OK, pep already said no new signings in the winter window, BUT if a very good offer comes in for one of our 4 centre backs, somebody like AKE lets say we get a £70million offer, should we cash in and sign a left back/wing back or right back/wing back or both,I hate watching us play a cover player or 4 centre backs at times ? It's like driving a top of the range sport scar with a flat tyre,

I will say pep needs a full deck to play the big games, has he had a full squad to pick the player in his role we signed him for in the first place, Liverpool always rip us to bits down the left side with Salah, also others in Champions League do the same, Pep has to pick a cover player even when Cancelo plays at left back, like in the villa game last season it was so easy to defend against us until Zinchenko played there

for me, it's a simple answer, sign a new full back/wing back first, then let's see, even if one of the young players goes on loan to fit somebody in it's got to be done

If that offer came in then we should take it and go and get a RB! Walker is getting on a bit now and Rico can be integrated into the team more but he is only 17? Cancelo is now a LB and we have Gomez and Wilson Esbrand that side as well. The lad at Lyon would be my choice

 

[Legal Alien]

if a very good offer comes in for one of our 4 centre backs, somebody like AKE lets say we get a £70million

I wouldn't sell Ake now he's playing well. If anyone leaves i think it will be Laporte but not until the summer.

Cancelo is now a LB

He's only a left back because we don't have an experienced alternative.
If there was a good left back available, that would be the priority signing imo.

 

[blueparrot]

I wouldn't sell Ake now he's playing well. If anyone leaves i think it will be Laporte but not until the summer.


He's only a left back because we don't have an experienced alternative.
If there was a good left back available, that would be the priority signing imo.

Thats not true though, even with Walker injured we would rather play a centre back at right back and Cancelo at left back, when we could easily play Cancelo at right back and a centre back at left back if we wanted. We obviously don’t.

 

[ancoats]

I wouldn't sell Ake now he's playing well. If anyone leaves i think it will be Laporte but not until the summer.


He's only a left back because we don't have an experienced alternative.
If there was a good left back available, that would be the priority signing imo.

Spot on

it's our weakness and teams have worked us out by double banking him (cancelo) so he can not cut back onto his right, when you watch the games vs Liverpool its cancelo they target with Salah running him senseless

if somebody comes available. World-class ? Then we have to juggle something and sign him if we have to sell or loan then for the good of the squad we must do it

 

[alexmcity]

He's only a left back because we don't have an experienced alternative.
If there was a good left back available, that would be the priority signing imo.

No (left) fullback in world football could offer more than Cancelo. The overall package is brilliant. He contributes heavily, not only in our build up play and attack, but also has the most interceptions and tackles. If there's an award for the best (left) fullback in the world in 2022, Cancelo will win it easily. The fantasies about us finding an experienced LB who offers more than Cancelo are just that. His recent mistakes don't define him. They are partly due to him being overplayed by Pep over the last 15 months: in terms of played minutes since the start of 21/22, he's far ahead of the other City players. We've been lucky that he's been permanently available, but his form is bound to suffer from it.

 

[aguero93:20]

No (left) fullback in world football could offer more than Cancelo. The overall package is brilliant. He contributes heavily, not only in our build up play and attack, but also has the most interceptions and tackles. If there's an award for the best (left) fullback in the world in 2022, Cancelo will win it easily. The fantasies about us finding an experienced LB who offers more than Cancelo are just that. His recent mistakes don't define him. They are partly due to him being overplayed by Pep over the last 15 months: in terms of played minutes since the start of 21/22, he's far ahead of the other City players. We've been lucky that he's been permanently available, but his form is bound to suffer from it.

Maldini once said if you have to make a tackle you've already made a mistake. The interceptions are great in isolation but a lot of those tackles are down to poor positioning.

 

[Bobby the blue]

No (left) fullback in world football could offer more than Cancelo. The overall package is brilliant. He contributes heavily, not only in our build up play and attack, but also has the most interceptions and tackles. If there's an award for the best (left) fullback in the world in 2022, Cancelo will win it easily. The fantasies about us finding an experienced LB who offers more than Cancelo are just that. His recent mistakes don't define him. They are partly due to him being overplayed by Pep over the last 15 months: in terms of played minutes since the start of 21/22, he's far ahead of the other City players. We've been lucky that he's been permanently available, but his form is bound to suffer from it.

Sorry but his mistake against Liverpool has nothing to do with being overplayed. That was basic defending and he messed up. I think for the pen on Saturday Ake certainly should have been in a better position to deal with it.

I like Cancelo but the defensive side of his game is up for debate. I personally feel we need to invest in the full back area. I’d also like to see Cancelo given a proper run at right back.

 

[alexmcity]

Maldini once said if you have to make a tackle you've already made a mistake. The interceptions are great in isolation but a lot of those tackles are down to poor positioning.

Depends on the context. Many of Cancelo's tackles win the ball back higher up the pitch and stop counters in the middle third. They are not mostly tackles in one vs one situations close to our goal. If you make most interceptions in the team (and around 20% of the whole team), your positioning is pretty good (for a high-pressing team anyway).

 

[alexmcity]

Sorry but his mistake against Liverpool has nothing to do with being overplayed.

How can you be sure about that?

It was about decision-making, and when you are being overplayed, your decision-making suffers. E.g., Van Dyke made several big mistakes toward the end of 19/20 which cost Liverpool our record of 100 pts. He played in almost all games that season, i.e. he was overplayed. Rodri was overplayed in 20/21 and lost form to the extent that Pep didn't use him vs PSG at home and Chelsea in the CL final.

Even the best defenders are bound to make bad mistakes when they are not mentally fresh enough. Mental fatigue may be a bigger problem for players than physical tiredness. Cancelo is fit and recovers better than virtually any City player, but he might be a bit tired mentally wise.

 

[Bobby the blue]

How can you be sure about that?

It was about decision-making, and when you are being overplayed, your decision-making suffers. E.g., Van Dyke made several big mistakes toward the end of 19/20 which cost Liverpool our record of 100 pts. He played in almost all games that season, i.e. he was overplayed. Rodri was overplayed in 20/21 and lost form to the extent that Pep didn't use him vs PSG at home and Chelsea in the CL final.

Even the best defenders are bound to make bad mistakes when they are not mentally fresh enough. Mental fatigue may be a bigger problem for players than physical tiredness. Cancelo is fit and recovers better than virtually any City player, but he might be a bit tired mentally wise.

That’s a fair point.
However personally speaking I just think it was a crap piece of defending. I do get where you’re coming from regarding him being overplayed as at the moment he is our only senior full back which for a club like ours is very poor.

 

[alexmcity]

That’s a fair point.
However personally speaking I just think it was a crap piece of defending. I do get where you’re coming from regarding him being overplayed as at the moment he is our only senior full back which for a club like ours is very poor.

One of Cancelo's strongest sides as a fullback is that he attacks the ball early, and doesn't wait for the opposition player to settle on the ball. His acceleration over 10 yards is great, probably the best at City (Walker is quicker over 20 yards, of course) and allows him to intercept passes and counters. But it's risky or even silly to do the same (attack the ball early) when you are the last man or closer to our box. He tried to do it vs Salah and that was a bad mistake indeed. In such situations, he's not reliable and should improve. But such situations are rare and do not define him as a fullback. Defensively, he's our best player in the middle third together with Rodri. Another fullback may do better closer to our box, but is unlikely to offer the same things Cancelo gives us in our build up play and high pressing. There are tradeoffs, the overall package is excellent, though.

 

[Legal Alien]

Thats not true though, even with Walker injured we would rather play a centre back at right back and Cancelo at left back, when we could easily play Cancelo at right back and a centre back at left back if we wanted. We obviously don’t.

That doesn’t mean we weren’t or aren’t still looking for a left back though.
Reportedly we were after Cucarella in the summer and if he would‘ve signed I’m sure he’d be playing on the left instead of Cancelo.

 

[Legal Alien]

If there's an award for the best (left) fullback in the world in 2022, Cancelo will win it easily. The fantasies about us finding an experienced LB who offers more than Cancelo are just that.

I like Cancelo as a player and he does offer a lot and his overall game is made for a Pep side, but he is weak defensively so I wouldn’t say he was the best left back in the world. I would say Robertson and Chilwell are better left backs than him and that’s just in the league.

We we’re reportedly after Cucarella last summer so I don’t think us hoping to find an experiencard left back were fantasies at all!

 

[decmancity]

I like Cancelo as a player and he does offer a lot and his overall game is made for a Pep side, but he is weak defensively so I wouldn’t say he was the best left back in the world. I would say Robertson and Chilwell are better left backs than him and that’s just in the league.

We we’re reportedly after Cucarella last summer so I don’t think us hoping to find an experiencard left back were fantasies at all!

Chilwell?

No chance.

 

[alexmcity]

I like Cancelo as a player and he does offer a lot and his overall game is made for a Pep side, but he is weak defensively so I wouldn’t say he was the best left back in the world. I would say Robertson and Chilwell are better left backs than him and that’s just in the league.

We we’re reportedly after Cucarella last summer so I don’t think us hoping to find an experiencard left back were fantasies at all!

Cancelo made the PFA team of the season ahead of Robertson and has been widely considered better than Robertson since the start of last season. Chilwell isn't in the conversation for best LB in the PL, let alone in the world (too many injuries to consider him, that's why Chelsea paid 63m for Cucu). Also, there are various kinds of defensive actions, Cancelo's defensive stats are generally better than Robertson's or Cucu's or.... Most of our defensive actions are higher up the pitch, Cancelo is perfect for our high pressing style.

The fact that we weren't prepared to go over 35m for Cucu speaks volumes: the intention wasn't to replace Cancelo, but to find a good option to rotate Cancelo and Walker. If Txiki/Pep thought that Cucu was better than Cancelo (which he obviously isn't), we'd have offered 50-60m for him. Cucu can't make the Spain squad (Jose Gaya is ahead of him!), Cancelo is in a different league to him.

 

[blueparrot]

I like Cancelo as a player and he does offer a lot and his overall game is made for a Pep side, but he is weak defensively so I wouldn’t say he was the best left back in the world. I would say Robertson and Chilwell are better left backs than him and that’s just in the league.

We we’re reportedly after Cucarella last summer so I don’t think us hoping to find an experiencard left back were fantasies at all!

How many chances has Pep had to buy a traditional left back though and not done, he’s even changed Walkers game from a traditional right back to an inverted one. Yes Chilwell and Robertson are better left back than ours in their team, doesn’t mean they could play in our team in the way Pep wants them to. Not saying we won’t buy a left back, but if we do we will change his game. Theres a reason he moved Cancelo from the right to the left, and it isn’t just because he had to.

 

[JewelZee]

No (left) fullback in world football could offer more than Cancelo. The overall package is brilliant. He contributes heavily, not only in our build up play and attack, but also has the most interceptions and tackles. If there's an award for the best (left) fullback in the world in 2022, Cancelo will win it easily. The fantasies about us finding an experienced LB who offers more than Cancelo are just that. His recent mistakes don't define him. They are partly due to him being overplayed by Pep over the last 15 months: in terms of played minutes since the start of 21/22, he's far ahead of the other City players. We've been lucky that he's been permanently available, but his form is bound to suffer from it.

I'll say when it comes to Cancelo you are consistent. Of course even Pep is at fault on the occasion Joao fucks up.

 

[alexmcity]

I'll say when it comes to Cancelo you are consistent. Of course even Pep is at fault on the occasion Joao fucks up.

Pep isn't exactly at fault, for we don't have enough good options at FB when Walker is injured. That is, Pep has been forced to play Cancelo a lot more than he himself prefers, partly because Cancelo has been too important to be rested, given the squad options (Ake and Gomez on the left, Stones and Akanji on the right). No City player has started so many games over the last 15 months, including Ederson. It is quite logical to suppose that, no matter how fit Cancelo is (and it's a big plus for our team that he is among the fittest players in the league), his form is bound to suffer at some point. He plays in all thirds of the pitch and isn't rotated, whereas players who play mostly in defence or mostly in attack are being rested every 3-4 games (if they are available in the first place).