Lack of pace on the wings

[JewelZee]

As soon as we drop a point, this is raised. Pace is almost completely ineffective against ten man defences so the belief that it is the answer is, IMO, completely flawed. Occasionally we will drop points and it does not mean there is anything wrong with the team, the manager or the tactics - it is the game.

That''s just not true. Not being able to take down an Everton team who is in horrific form, offered zero going forward, at home signifies there are problems. Pace is NEVER irrelevant. It creates pressure, allows for closing spaces much quicker, allows for getting to 2nd balls quicker, etc., etc. We need to get Foden back on the pitch and find a way to get Alvarez in there too.

 

[JewelZee]

BTW lets not be excessively hard on ourselves with Grealish.

From time to time clubs get it wrong with someone. Including us.

Voldemort is such a signing that we don't like to talk about for obvious reasons. And Bony.

But we get more right than wrong.

I don't think we got it wrong in acquiring Grealish. I think we're getting it wrong in how he's utilized...

 

[JewelZee]

Bernardo has so much more to his game though - hardly like for like...to me Bernado would be great as no 10..right behind Haaland and Foden...he would probably adapt and play like Erickson when he was at his best for Spuds,,or Hazard at Chelsk...JG couldn't lace these two or Bernado's boots

How do you know? How about he gets a look being that we spent 100 mil for him. I saw him run riot against Liverpool when playing as an AM at Villa.

 

[CityBluez]

Foden 11 g/a
Haaland 30 g/a
Mahrez 7 g/a

Are actually on course to beat those total numbers. 40 + 37 + 33 = 110.
We're currently about 5/12 of the way through the season. 25 of a total of ≈60.

11 + 30 + 7 = 48
48 x 12/5 = 115.2 g/a

Lol. Give it a rest.
Foden, for some reason, isn't starting anymore and mahrez would at best add 10 more goals(i am being generous here) to his tally considering his form.

 

[blueju]

Pace doesn’t have to be a winger running at full backs from the halfway line, it can be just as effective when a player has stood a defender up in the positions Majrez and Grealish receive the ball. You only need a short burst of speed to get past a player. SWP in his prime would create in these packed defences.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

I don't think we got it wrong in acquiring Grealish. I think we're getting it wrong in how he's utilized...

How do you think he should be utilised and at who's expense?

There's little doubt that he's playing to Peps instructions.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

We need to knock the ball over-the-counter top on occasion to exploit Haalands pace. Just once or twice a game.
Not a Pep thing sadly.
Also need to play Alvarez on the flanks more. Pace and skill to burn.

Spider man is not a winger,he's an 8 9 or10.

We need our full backs to be overlapping but Rico is playing 'safe' to instructions and NatAk can't attack.

We need Walkers pace and physicality with Cancellos vision and creativity.

We may lose a bit defensively but hopefully we'll gain a much more offensively.

Peps a stubborn fucker though....I hope he doesn't try anything daft agin the rags again.

 

[oldius]

That''s just not true. Not being able to take down an Everton team who is in horrific form, offered zero going forward, at home signifies there are problems. Pace is NEVER irrelevant. It creates pressure, allows for closing spaces much quicker, allows for getting to 2nd balls quicker, etc., etc. We need to get Foden back on the pitch and find a way to get Alvarez in there too.

Which part isn't true? It is certainly the case that as soon as we drop a point, the atmosphere here changes to all kinds of tactical errors raised, problems with players, or problems with the manager. The halcyon Sané days are repeatedly raised, as if we never dropped a point back then, and specific players are scapegoated. Now, we have people who condemned Raheem talking about how we need him!

This is the strangest of seasons, and we have Laporte, Dias, Stones, Cancelo, Walker, Foden, Alvarez and others all missing or played less regularly. We had more players in the World Cup than any other side in world football and more players in the latter stages too. We are also stacked with games in January.

When people were criticising the false 9 set up and hankering for a striker, I pointed out that there was no guarantee that having one would bring us more goals, because we may create less chances with having a player 'up top' rather than in the midfield attacking zone. Haaland is magnificent, of course, but we do have games, and have done for several seasons, when a team sets up to stop us playing, with ten behind the ball, time wasting, niggly fouls and general disruption to our flow of play. It is testament to our quality that we face this a lot. Most times we are able to break through. Sometimes, our opponent breaks through us and it can be incredibly difficult to break them down, pace or not. At Leeds, Jessie Marsch spoke of stopping Haaland by stopping our width, hence Jack and Mahrez had three on them as soon as we had the ball out wide. Defences and coaching are tactically way ahead of where they were and teams are happy to sit and wait for the odd chance. The over-reaction here, at times, is embarrassing, and there is no perfect solution - we dropped points before when blessed with pace, top strikers and our best line-ups, and we will again: it is part of the game and no amount of success guarantees us more success, or entitles us to it.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

Opponents know neither will go down the outside because they need to chop the ball back or inside, to afford themselves that yard of space to then work in.

Ironically, our goal came yesterday because Mahrez changed the habit of a lifetime by fooling his marker and going on outside.

Sadly, like with all signings we make, we are desperate for things to work out, but I fear Jack is already proving a costly mistake.

He doesn't have the ball skills of Mahrez to beat his man and so he does look clumsy and invariably draws the foul because the first touch out of his feet isn't quick enough.

His reaction to Haaland's first goal at Leeds showed how much it meant to him, even though it was an act of unselfishness which hardly pushed the footballing boundaries, with Pep even suggesting when his head is more confident, he might take those opportunities on himself?

Jack seems a good lad and the manager and players are clearly pulling for him to come good, yet unlike other players we have, he doesn't have the versatility to thrive in other positions.

The £100m fee isn't his fault, but it is the first time I felt we have made a United-type statement signing since Bony, where the public hype train was greater than the talent on display.

Similarly, how the cult of personality created a national group think that Sterling was still operating at an elite level in his final 18 months with City.

Jack wasn't a kid when he joined us, he's had more than a year to show there is more to come, and it still isn't.

Phil is a better fit for the team on the left and even Cancelo and Palmer have shown more threat in those areas of the pitch.

We need Jack to be chipping in with eight or ten goals a season and his record doesn't suggest he has ever been that?

My ideal three would be Foden, Haaland and Alvarez, from an intensity/goal threat perspective and hopefully we get to see more of that in the coming months and in Europe.

Jack isn't going anywhere soon and earns more than most. There comes a point, however, where in the next few weeks he needs to make the ultimate step, or we need to accept City and Pep got this one wrong.

Just as Chelsea did with Lukaku. A good player, yes, but in the wrong team and environment.

I'd have loved City to have been scouting someone like Luis Diaz at £37m :(

It's why, as much as I have loved Bellingham and his energy, I even question if I'm right, in terms of his City fit?

agreed with most of the thing you say. except that grealish does not have versatility. he can easily play in the middle, it is pep who is refusing to use him and seems to be stroking his own ego by trying to prove that grealish is a successful winger in our system.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

I still think Cancelo can be an option on the right wing. It might be more chaotic, but he can beat a man, cross and is fast enough. Defensively he's been poor this season, but he could still track back better than most

agree with this. could be a adhoc solution.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

Nail on head.

No plasticy overreaction like Pep/ Txiki/ Laporte/ Ederson out.. just astute observations sir!

You're not the only one with Bellingham reservations.. I've questioned it since he berated his own teammates in Dortmund mid game. We have built our team on harmony.. but he seems like too strong a personality and could create factions.

And everyone loves Cancelo but he's had so many mental errors this season.. and is deservingly benched.

But mental errors seems to be a theme this season.. we've given up goals way too easily and opposition teams know they can just park the bus and hit us on the counter for 1-2 goals.

How long has it been since we managed 3 clean sheets in a row ffs?

Seems we need to fix our defensive and midfield before thinking about 100 mil pound players!

As for pace we found Rico in our academy. We have Borges and Mebude and Ndala. I know Pep doesn't think Borges is right but how about the other 2? They have be at the very least better than Sterling!

the issue I have with bellingham is that he is a defensive player who is not good at defending, but looks better when he is attacking. at the same time his attacking output is not better than a good attacking midfielder.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

I agree about Grealish, i didn’t think we needed him at the time as it looked like him and Foden would be in competition for a place and that’s what’s happened. To compound the problem, Grealish just hasn’t produced and it doesn’t matter what Foden does he just can’t seem to get a decent run.

If Grealish does stay beyond this season I do think though that Foden will be moved to play left midfield for us.

As for Bellingham, if Bernardo leaves I think we need him and this type of player.

Now we have Haaland we need to change the way we play and we need to be faster in midfield and move the ball quicker.

So to me this means we need Bellingham and Foden in midfield to give us more power and pace in the box to box roles.

It would change the midfield to more of a diamond with Rodri sitting, Bellingham and Foden either side and KDB sitting behind Haaland and Alvarez.

foden and bellingham in the middle will be fucking shit defensively. pep will never play that

 

[Saddleworth2]

We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

That is by design though. As I said in an earlier post, this has been coming for the last couple of seasons and is a deliberate slowing of the game by utilising Mahrez and Jack. Its control Pep wants and better management of transitions, not pace. I don't particularly like this version of us as much as those that have gone before but we better learn to live with it unless Pep changes direction completely or leaves. It is pointless us bumping our gums about the lack of pace when that is what our manager has designed into the squad.

And for those calling out Jack as not fitting as a City player. He is fitting because he is playing as the Manager wants. Thats why he is starting almost every game now.

 

[City_Sean]

It's not just about lack of pace, it's the fact that Grealish and Mahrez are seemingly devoid of playing with any urgency. They hold onto the ball for too long and slow things down.

If you want to create chances at the highest level you have to move the ball quickly and with purpose. At the moment both of them put their on the ball, take two or three touches before playing a square pass. At this point the opposition defence has reset.

Neither of them are also willing to run behind the fullback, which in turn makes us totally one dimensional.

 

[blue whippet]

We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

Opponents know neither will go down the outside because they need to chop the ball back or inside, to afford themselves that yard of space to then work in.

Ironically, our goal came yesterday because Mahrez changed the habit of a lifetime by fooling his marker and going on outside.

Sadly, like with all signings we make, we are desperate for things to work out, but I fear Jack is already proving a costly mistake.

He doesn't have the ball skills of Mahrez to beat his man and so he does look clumsy and invariably draws the foul because the first touch out of his feet isn't quick enough.

His reaction to Haaland's first goal at Leeds showed how much it meant to him, even though it was an act of unselfishness which hardly pushed the footballing boundaries, with Pep even suggesting when his head is more confident, he might take those opportunities on himself?

Jack seems a good lad and the manager and players are clearly pulling for him to come good, yet unlike other players we have, he doesn't have the versatility to thrive in other positions.

The £100m fee isn't his fault, but it is the first time I felt we have made a United-type statement signing since Bony, where the public hype train was greater than the talent on display.

Similarly, how the cult of personality created a national group think that Sterling was still operating at an elite level in his final 18 months with City.

Jack wasn't a kid when he joined us, he's had more than a year to show there is more to come, and it still isn't.

Phil is a better fit for the team on the left and even Cancelo and Palmer have shown more threat in those areas of the pitch.

We need Jack to be chipping in with eight or ten goals a season and his record doesn't suggest he has ever been that?

My ideal three would be Foden, Haaland and Alvarez, from an intensity/goal threat perspective and hopefully we get to see more of that in the coming months and in Europe.

Jack isn't going anywhere soon and earns more than most. There comes a point, however, where in the next few weeks he needs to make the ultimate step, or we need to accept City and Pep got this one wrong.

Just as Chelsea did with Lukaku. A good player, yes, but in the wrong team and environment.

I'd have loved City to have been scouting someone like Luis Diaz at £37m :(

It's why, as much as I have loved Bellingham and his energy, I even question if I'm right, in terms of his City fit?

Sadly I find myself agreeing with you regarding Jack. I like him and desperately want to see him succeed but it is difficult to see how he can fit into the team at present. I think the price tag has made it even more difficult, just because it was such a huge figure and it feels as we are now in a situation where we somehow have to make it work.

Saturday was such a frustrating and at times tedious watch for many reasons. At times we just struggled to move the ball forward and when we did it ended up back with the centre backs again soon after.

I'd like to see that front three too, but would Pep?

 

[Bill Walker]

We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

Opponents know neither will go down the outside because they need to chop the ball back or inside, to afford themselves that yard of space to then work in.

Ironically, our goal came yesterday because Mahrez changed the habit of a lifetime by fooling his marker and going on outside.

Sadly, like with all signings we make, we are desperate for things to work out, but I fear Jack is already proving a costly mistake.

He doesn't have the ball skills of Mahrez to beat his man and so he does look clumsy and invariably draws the foul because the first touch out of his feet isn't quick enough.

His reaction to Haaland's first goal at Leeds showed how much it meant to him, even though it was an act of unselfishness which hardly pushed the footballing boundaries, with Pep even suggesting when his head is more confident, he might take those opportunities on himself?

Jack seems a good lad and the manager and players are clearly pulling for him to come good, yet unlike other players we have, he doesn't have the versatility to thrive in other positions.

The £100m fee isn't his fault, but it is the first time I felt we have made a United-type statement signing since Bony, where the public hype train was greater than the talent on display.

Similarly, how the cult of personality created a national group think that Sterling was still operating at an elite level in his final 18 months with City.

Jack wasn't a kid when he joined us, he's had more than a year to show there is more to come, and it still isn't.

Phil is a better fit for the team on the left and even Cancelo and Palmer have shown more threat in those areas of the pitch.

We need Jack to be chipping in with eight or ten goals a season and his record doesn't suggest he has ever been that?

My ideal three would be Foden, Haaland and Alvarez, from an intensity/goal threat perspective and hopefully we get to see more of that in the coming months and in Europe.

Jack isn't going anywhere soon and earns more than most. There comes a point, however, where in the next few weeks he needs to make the ultimate step, or we need to accept City and Pep got this one wrong.

Just as Chelsea did with Lukaku. A good player, yes, but in the wrong team and environment.

I'd have loved City to have been scouting someone like Luis Diaz at £37m :(

It's why, as much as I have loved Bellingham and his energy, I even question if I'm right, in terms of his City fit?

Agree with all you say.
We need some dynamism left and right.
Phil and Alvarez.
Were pedestrian ATM. Too easy to defend against.

 

[blueju]

It's not just about lack of pace, it's the fact that Grealish and Mahrez are seemingly devoid of playing with any urgency. They hold onto the ball for too long and slow things down.

If you want to create chances at the highest level you have to move the ball quickly and with purpose. At the moment both of them put their on the ball, take two or three touches before playing a square pass. At this point the opposition defence has reset.

Neither of them are also willing to run behind the fullback, which in turn makes us totally one dimensional.

I’ve only watched Brentford when we’ve played them but since they beat us I’ve watched them live against Tottingham and extended highlights of their last game. Relevant to what you’re saying about speed of movement of the ball, just watch them at every opportunity they play the ball down the middle when they break and the next touch they usually try to flick the ball round the corner and have players already on their toes to chase it down. Amazing how many times it happens but no surprise how hard it is to defend against. I’m in no way saying we should start playing long balls but it does back up what you’re saying about moving the ball so fast as to cause panic in the opposition.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

This is a great thread that describes perfectly what is going on right now and why we’re quite frankly boring to watch at times. Basically Pep is terrified of risk. Pep is currently one of the most defensive coaches in the game… it’s just that he sees defending totally different to the vast majority. We defend through control, and if you view defence that way we are actually as defensive as a team can get… practically no risk is ever taken. It’s just a totally different way of being pragmatic. We’re not pragmatic by having a back 5 with 3 holding midfielders. We’re pragmatic through having wingers that are picked purely because they can keep possession better than wingers who like to go in behind. We’re pragmatic in that the backwards pass is preferred to any forward pass that has an element of risk attached to it etc. It’s quite an interesting discussion this risk v control trade-off and it’s also interesting how Pep is moving more and more each year towards the extreme control end. There’ll be no more Sane and Sterling days etc. Even Foden is seen as too risky of late.

 

[stan bowles]

Strangest buy ever Jack Grealish, I like his character but just seemed an odd fit, a player who carried the ball until he gets fouled - max 8 goals in a season...said from day one why him? He was about 26 when we bought him as well! Seemed a PR move to me

But no one ever believed we would play him as a left winger when we bought him.

 

[stan bowles]

This is a great thread that describes perfectly what is going on right now and why we’re quite frankly boring to watch at times. Basically Pep is terrified of risk. Pep is currently one of the most defensive coaches in the game… it’s just that he sees defending totally different to the vast majority. We defend through control, and if you view defence that way we are actually as defensive as a team can get… practically no risk is ever taken. It’s just a totally different way of being pragmatic. We’re not pragmatic by having a back 5 with 3 holding midfielders. We’re pragmatic through having wingers that are picked purely because they can keep possession better than wingers who like to go in behind. We’re pragmatic in that the backwards pass is preferred to any forward pass that has an element of risk attached to it etc. It’s quite an interesting discussion this risk v control trade-off and it’s also interesting how Pep is moving more and more each year towards the extreme control end. There’ll be no more Sane and Sterling days etc. Even Foden is seen as too risky of late.

Grealish is perfect for the risk averse style we've adopted. Defences are happy for him to have as many touches as he likes as he very rarely threatens and his finishing is weak. It's a tough watch against a low block.