The Album Review Club - Week #196 (page 1316) - Aja - Steely Dan

[threespires]

All these mentions of the Dead Kennedys but no reference to the greatest punk song (IMO) of all time: California Über Alles.

I think maybe that's what Bimbo was referring to but not in a good way!

 

[threespires]

When I regularly posted on another forum, some kind gentlemen sent 4 FOUR CDs worth of reggae that he'd put together. There were a few songs that made me think there was more to it than I initially thought, but it didn't convert me.

I love Bob Marley's "Iron, Lion, Zion" though.

Just for reference, I think my preferred genres (ordered popular to yuck) would be as follows.
I think I've got all the major areas covered and thinking about it, punk is far from the worst.

- Roots-rock/Americana
- Classic rock
- Blues
----------- Champions League Placings kind of line --------------
- Hard rock
- Indie (as long as it doesn't feature whiny British vocalists - sing man, just sing and move the fader up!)
- Pop with nice chords, hooks and harmony vocals
- Soul
- Jazz (not that I listen t a lot, but it's OK in small doses)
---------- Relegation Danger Line -----------------------
- Punk (the less screechy, more instrumental prowess, the better)
- DJs prancing about remixing stuff (although I must confess to having found a few tracks I like, but generally it's not my thing)
- Reggae
- Pop where's there's such flimsy instrumental backing, you wonder why they bothered - e.g. Craig David)
- Hip Hop and all that dub/trance bollocks
- Rap (even here, there's always an exception: "Gangsta's Paradises" OK, but Weird Al Yankovic's "Amish Paradise" is far better)

Because I like stuff from Acapella to Zydeco (with the possible dishonourable exception of Death Metal :-) ) I don't really explicitly think in terms of genre ranking, more just what I like and for what reasons.

However I do like to do it with record labels which are a partial proxy. So Champs League finalists are the likes of Stax Volt (actually they are Messi, Pele and Colin the King combined but that's just mho), Blue Note, Impulse and 4AD.
Very solid Prem League would be labels like Factory, Rough Trade and Trojan etc.

Sadly in some ways, happily in others the role of the record company/label has changed and diminished so it's probably less meaningful to think like this these days.

 

[RobMCFC]

Because I like stuff from Acapella to Zydeco (with the possible dishonourable exception of Death Metal :-) ) I don't really explicitly think in terms of genre ranking, more just what I like and for what reasons.

However I do like to do it with record labels which are a partial proxy. So Champs League finalists are the likes of Stax Volt (actually they are Messi, Pele and Colin the King combined but that's just mho), Blue Note, Impulse and 4AD.
Very solid Prem League would be labels like Factory, Rough Trade and Trojan etc.

Sadly in some ways, happily in others the role of the record company/label has changed and diminished so it's probably less meaningful to think like this these days.

Yeah, the genre ranking was a bit of fun and a rule of thumb. As noted, there are exceptions to every genre anyway.

I do like a bit of Cajun/Zydeco though, now you mention it.

 

[RobMCFC]

I think @GornikDaze can be very proud of his selection this week - only half the week gone and 16 pages of discussion already!

Admittedly, not all of it is related to the Pixies, but this kind of tangential discussion always happens when we get a nomination that stirs the pot.

 

[Manc in London]

“Let’s Lynch the Landlord” is actually my favo(u)rite from that record but CUA has the best lyrics IMO. But I was 15 when that record came out and look where I’m from :). You can imagine it was pretty appealing.

Greatest punk song is a good discussion. Just thinking through it I can think of several contenders. And I’d bet Yanks and Brits would have a few nominations. Off the top of my head it’s “Blitzkrieg Bop” (greatest now, not personal fave) but I could be persuaded by a number of others.

Good shout.

 

[Manc in London]

I think maybe that's what Bimbo was referring to but not in a good way!

I assumed she was referring to 'Nazi punks...' and 'Too drunk to...'.

 

[Manc in London]

“Let’s Lynch the Landlord” is actually my favo(u)rite from that record but CUA has the best lyrics IMO. But I was 15 when that record came out and look where I’m from :). You can imagine it was pretty appealing.

Greatest punk song is a good discussion. Just thinking through it I can think of several contenders. And I’d bet Yanks and Brits would have a few nominations. Off the top of my head it’s “Blitzkrieg Bop” (greatest now, not personal fave) but I could be persuaded by a number of others.

I like 'We've got a bigger problem now', almost as much.

Did you ever hear Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy cover of CUA? One of my favourite ever covers. For me, it was like a second update of CUA following 'We've got a bigger problem now'.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I like 'We've got a bigger problem now', almost as much.

Did you ever hear Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy cover of CUA? One of my favourite ever covers. For me, it was like a second update of CUA following 'We've got a bigger problem now'.

Indeed I have. Felt like a pretty good Public Enemy rip to me. And I love PE. Pete Wilson's a more direct target though; calling out Jerry Brown and hippie authoritarianism despite being a green leftist as Jello was/is seemed IMO funnier as well as more daring as well as ahead of its time.

 

[OB1]

I think Eamo has hit the nail on the head - it's the anti-singing that spoils it for me.

We've had plenty of comments on here about Dylan or Springsteen not being able to sing, but the key difference is that they are delivering their words to the best of their ability in a style that suits them. They may not have perfect voices, but you can (mostly) heard their words, which of course is a probably the most important part of their appeal.

In this case, Black Francis (or is it Frank Black?) spends about a third of the album screeching. Not artists I have ever listened to sells me on screeching.

The music isn't bad at all a lot of the time.

The thing is both Dylan and Springstee can sing. Dylan in particular may not be somebody's cup of rosie but he can sing. I like Dylan's vocals and it is one thing that I am very picky about. I very rarely like anything if the vocalist can't sing. I don't like shouty singers at all, with the exception of Dave Grohl, who mostly sings properly.

 

[OB1]

I probably found Breeders easier to listen to than this, when it was put forward. Partly because unlike with this I had no prior preconceptions. Partly because it is clearer with what it is.

But I have to admit, overall, I preferred this one. Possibly a touch of recency bias, but what I did like in this one, I liked a fair bit. There was more on the breeders album that was fine, but less that was as grabbing.

This one also had me going through a lot of their other work, something Breeders didn't, or not any more than in passing.



As an aside, if it means anything at all, when the album finishes, my spotify moves on to autoplay the cure, joy division, the smiths, etc. Perhaps reaffirming my earlier point that this album is more of a post 70s pop-rock than the pre-90s scene.

I actually ended up buying the Breeders album, mind you the price before P&P was under a quid.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The thing is both Dylan and Springstee can sing. Dylan in particular may not be somebody's cup of rosie but he can sing. I like Dylan's vocals and it is one thing that I am very picky about. I very rarely like anything if the vocalist can't sing. I don't like shouty singers at all, with the exception of Dave Grohl, who mostly sings properly.

Both Dylan and Bruce's vocals ideally compliment the storytelling of their songs I think. But I also thought Black Francis vocals were appropriate to the Pixies and an integral part of their overall sound.

 

[OB1]

I’ve just had to look up the meaning of gaslighting and was surprised by what I saw.

Anybody who knows me in real life would tell you that I’m a heart-on-my-sleeve Guy. I like to consider myself fair, which is why I can review albums like this week’s and debate what I do and don’t like about it.

However, I will admit that I feel my lip involuntary curling and a sneer coming on whenever people try to tell my how good punk was (or The Stone Roses were for that matter).

Like I said, I was a bit young at the time, but looking back, I find it extraordinary that people would choose to listen to punk versus other music that was available at the time.

I do accept that we are all different, and what’s music to some is noise to others, and that’s one of the things that makes the various music threads tick. Given that there’s no shortage of people telling us how great punk was, I feel that it’s my duty to represent the other team :)

With a few notable exceptions, I was very anti-punk in it's heyday: I was product of Glam Rock (Bolan was my first musical hero) and a Heavy Metal Kid. Punks were to be sneered at (feeling was mutual). I did like the Pistols album but, musically, it's pretty much a metal album. Smith & Cook made a great hard rock album with Michael Des Barres. The Clash soon resorted to getting heavy rock producers behind the sliders and morphed into something other than punk.

Nowadays, I take a more nostaligic view of punk / new-wave and have a few albums fron the genre in my collection but I'm still happy not to have been a punk.

 

[OB1]

Hmmm. I don't think I can let this one slide, mate. :)

There are a goodly number of punk musicians who are proper but choose to play stylistically how they do. They also learn and get "better" (or more technically facile) over time too. Not only that, but it's hard to play super fast and accurately -- any traditional rock instrument, I'd bet. Hell, no one would call Pat Smear of Foo Fighters a shitty guitarist. He started off with The Germs, who were as punk and slovenly soncially as it got in the 80s. How about Ian McKaye of Minor Threat/Fugazi? Greg Ginn of Black Flag? Tremendous guitarists. And you are periously close to insulting my musical heroes Bob Mould and Grant Hart, which are fighting words!

Now, granted, studio production is hard to do a shoestring, and volume sometimes overcomes tunefulness live in tiny clubs, so more money and better acoustics beget better sonics, which is why punk often sounds better when it shifts to major labels. But hooks are hooks, and whether its The Circle Jerks or Vanessa Carlton, both have 'em regardless of genre IMO, and my choice of playing either artist is entirely dependent on mood.

I like Pat Smear but he is just a sideman in Foos. Chris Shiflett is the guitar player in the Foos: that boy has chops; think he started in a punk band though. Mind you, there's punk and punk.

 

[OB1]

As part of my penance, I've spent an hour or so on Spotify tonight sampling a few Husker Du songs.

I really enjoyed "Never Talking To You Again" and "Don't Want To Know If You're Lonely". I'll probably listen to the full albums in the next week or so.

But I also listened to a full album tonight ...... back in the late 80s/early 90s, I used to obsessively read Q Magazine. One album that was reviewed and talked about (and it's distinctive blue cover appeared in every issue for a few months) was Sugar's Copper Blue. This is a great album - melodic with some tough guitars and decent singing. It's funny that an album that I read about 30 years ago but never got around to buying or listening to is available to me now, but that's the power of modern streaming.

Copper Blue is an album I bought on the back of the Q review. I ended up selling it, which in retrospect was probably harsh.

 

[OB1]

Anyhow, given folk are commenting on Punk as a genre, I will give it my personal perspective. Like most genres there is a spectrum to like or dislike. Personally, I never got the po-go and spitting stuff. That was just gross. I liked early Jam, always loved the Stranglers and some of what The Clash did, The Ramones were ok. Not so much the Sex Pistols although I did get the raw energy of their sound. Souixie left me pretty cold. Still listened to Yes and Genesis throughout that period. I guess that makes me a dinosaur.

No, that makes you a music lover ;-)

 

[OB1]

You see I wouldn’t have classified The Jam and Stranglers as punk they were what I referred to as contemporaries on the periphery of that and although The Ramones were American punk, it wasn’t the same thing either.
That’s my take on it. The Clash too, I could take to, no problem. Stranglers were brilliant, but like you I was still listening to Prog predominantly.

A lot of band got lumped in with Punk and New Wave that was a convenience (for journos or marketing folk).

The Jam were a mod band, a very poor man's Who.

The Stranglers were'nt punk, more second rate Doors - although I do like them.

As you say, American Punk is not to be confused with UK spitty crap.

 

[GornikDaze]

I think @GornikDaze can be very proud of his selection this week - only half the week gone and 16 pages of discussion already!

Admittedly, not all of it is related to the Pixies, but this kind of tangential discussion always happens when we get a nomination that stirs the pot.

Good job I didn’t go for my controversial choice ;)

 

[OB1]

To be fair, I wasn't trying to cover every genre, just give broad brush strokes,

Folk and country are definitely in that top roots-rock/Americana category (but the hillbilly and Steve Earle end of country, not that syrupy Nashville stuff - that would be a few pegs further down).

Electronic can be lumped in with the dub/trance bollocks.

Classical would probably somewhere in the mid section - I generally prefer music with lyrics but like most people, I love a good film score and the well-known classical pieces.

Alternative rock I class the same as indie - The Smithereens, whose song I nominated in the Christmas playlist - is a fantastic example of the alternative rock I like - loud crunchy guitars and the late Pat Dinizio could really sing.

I've bought The Smithereens' greatest hits album thanks to you. It will get its first airing on the way to MCR tomorrow.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I like Pat Smear but he is just a sideman in Foos. Chris Shiflett is the guitar player in the Foos: that boy has chops; think he started in a punk band though. Mind you, there's punk and punk.

Fair point. I think what is was trying to draw a distinction between is the art and the artist. Just because a player plays punk doesn’t mean they can’t physically play their instrument, nor does it mean they can’t learn nor change, and most successful punk musicians can and did. Punk’s greatest legacy IMO is that it created a world where it was acceptable (if not sometimes even preferable) to start or join a band without being able to play. It was idea and attitude first. And that’s quite freeing, and created(s) all kinds of new possibilities directionally. Exhibit A: the bassist in the very band we’re discussing! Kim Deal joined Pixies without knowing how to play a note. And the world is better for it.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

A lot of band got lumped in with Punk and New Wave that was a convenience (for journos or marketing folk).

The Jam were a mod band, a very poor man's Who.

The Stranglers were'nt punk, more second rate Doors - although I do like them.

As you say, American Punk is not to be confused with UK spitty crap.

I have always thought of The Jam as a poor man’s Who but never the Stranglers as a poor man’s Doors but the idea and symmetry of that comparison has a lot of appeal. The difference is I like The Who a ton better than The Doors, whereas I can take or leave both The Jam and The Stranglers save for a few pretty righteous tunes from both.