Nadim Zahawi

[metalblue]

Your stance appears to be;
1) If he'd been competent in hiding £27m from HMRC then it wouldn't be an issue.
2) He's dislikable.

If I'm wrong I apologise but this sort of compliciity, in the circumstances foisted on this country by the Conservative Party, means your moral compass is pointing fixedly on ****.

Tax avoidance is legal whether we like it or not and the tax system in this country is far too complicated for its own good.

I didn’t create the rules but understand there are legal ways to avoid tax (some border on reprehensible but many don’t, eg pension contributions) … if that makes me a **** then so be it.

 

[Gabriel]

“Should have known better than to cheat the State, waste the chance that he’d been given…”

 

[Zuriblue]

Interesting call-in to LBC earlier from a bloke who boasts a 40 year career with HMRC as a tax investigator, who therefore knows extraordinarily well that of which he speaks. Basically, the level of the penalty imposed on , and paid by, Zahawi would indicate he is very close to the category of "deliberate but not concealed action"- very close to actual tax evasion - which would normally result in the offender being banned from holding office as a company director, etc. Which logically implies that Zahawi's position as Chair of the Conservative Party is untenable and that he should by rights resign, or be required to resign. He won't of course. Zahawi is claiming that HMRC found his actions to be in the lesser category of "careless and not deliberate".

What it points to is something that most people already know - that Zahawi is fundamentally dishonest, selfish and venal (see: threatening email to a journalist seeking to investigate his misdemeanours). Just like Johnson. Just like Rees-Mogg. Just like every other Tory shit. He shouldn't be within a million miles of public office.

 

[bluethrunthru]

as I said this is being teased out bit by bit - there will be more to come I bet. Saw him on BBC News just now wearing big puffer coat, baseball cap. trackies and trainers - presumably hoping to blend in with the Knightsbridge Massive as the whole ensemble was worth thousands £££££

Nadhim Zahawi: Tax error was careless and not deliberate

Labour calls on the ex-chancellor to answer questions after he addresses "confusion" about his taxes.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lloydie]

Tax avoidance is legal whether we like it or not and the tax system in this country is far too complicated for its own good.

I didn’t create the rules but understand there are legal ways to avoid tax (some border on reprehensible but many don’t, eg pension contributions) … if that makes me a **** then so be it.

Once again, he tried to evade, notwithstanding @Zuriblue 's post above (we know high office will only ever face the least serious of charges they can plausibly bring).

 

[Gabriel]

 

[oldius]

We should expect our leaders to be beyond reproach, acting legally and morally to do their best for their constituents and the nation. It really isn't too much to ask: no second jobs, no positions on company boards, no offshore accounts, and any family business based in the UK and paying full UK Corporation Tax. The salary of £88k is not a discouragement for the vast majority of the UK populous, and the vast majority would not consider that they may need a second position to top up their earnings. There are too many vested interests, too many with shares in companies, and too many acting dubiously where tax affairs are concerned. The legal argument is almost a non-starter for me - do the right thing.

 

[metalblue]

Once again, he tried to evade, notwithstanding @Zuriblue 's post above (we know high office will only ever face the least serious of charges they can plausibly bring).

It appears based on evidence posted he tried to avoid. What he appears to have ended up doing is evading. I guess it’s like a manslaughter charge…he didn’t intend to but he did. Although always hard to know how much he really did intend to.

if he had intended to evade he would be facing criminal proceedings. You can’t just say “oh ok I’ll pay it” if you’ve been busted, that’s not how it works.

 

[oldius]

It appears based on evidence posted he tried to avoid. What he appears to have ended up doing is evading. I guess it’s like a manslaughter charge…he didn’t intend to but he did. Although always hard to know how much he really did intend to.

if he had intended to evade he would be facing criminal proceedings. You can’t just say “oh ok I’ll pay it” if you’ve been busted, that’s not how it works.

He may well not have faced criminal proceedings, especially with the scale of defence he would likely threaten HMRC with. This is a very large payment made, suggestive of a very serious matter, but HMRC will cut deals if they are likely to end up in legal proceedings for years.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Tax avoidance is legal whether we like it or not and the tax system in this country is far too complicated for its own good.

I didn’t create the rules but understand there are legal ways to avoid tax (some border on reprehensible but many don’t, eg pension contributions) … if that makes me a **** then so be it.

It is complicated and allows for all kinds of manoeuvres, legal or otherwise. It is, in fact, as variable system as the offside and handball laws in football.

 

[lloydie]

It appears based on evidence posted he tried to avoid. What he appears to have ended up doing is evading. I guess it’s like a manslaughter charge…he didn’t intend to but he did. Although always hard to know how much he really did intend to.

if he had intended to evade he would be facing criminal proceedings. You can’t just say “oh ok I’ll pay it” if you’ve been busted, that’s not how it works.

Oh yes it is. If there's a plausible denial, you're the holder of high office and HMRC want's the thing to go away, they'll take the money (with £2m penalties apparently) and avoid litigation costs and hassle.
FFS, he created a company in tax free Gib, hid income and lied about it.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Oh yes it is. If there's a plausible denial, you're the holder of high office and HMRC want's the thing to go away, they'll take the money (with £2m penalties apparently) and avoid litigation costs and hassle.
FFS, he created a company in tax free Gib, hid income and lied about it.

Surely this was 'an oversight'! Like all those skunks come out with when they're caught Rag-handed.

 

[metalblue]

Oh yes it is. If there's a plausible denial, you're the holder of high office and HMRC want's the thing to go away, they'll take the money (with £2m penalties apparently) and avoid litigation costs and hassle.
FFS, he created a company in tax free Gib, hid income and lied about it.

Did he hide it and lie about it though? If he did I don’t see there being any plausible denial. I do agree if it’s not clear cut HMRC may well have said take the money but that only says it’s not clear cut.

He won’t release the details which will just leave people to make up their own minds. You think he evaded deliberately, I think he didn’t do it deliberately. We both think he’s a sly **** who I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw him.

 

[lloydie]

Did he hide it and lie about it though? If he did I don’t see there being any plausible denial. I do agree if it’s not clear cut HMRC may well have said take the money but that only says it’s not clear cut.

He won’t release the details which will just leave people to make up their own minds. You think he evaded deliberately, I think he didn’t do it deliberately. We both think he’s a sly **** who I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw him.

I posted this earlier, read it, if you're still of that opinion then I've got a nice bridge you might be interested in...

Nadhim Zahawi - the whole story

UPDATE: this was written on 19 January, and I haven't updated it. We subsequently learned (thanks to the Guardian) that Zahawi had been charged a large penalty. And we now know, thanks to Sir Laurie Magnus, that HMRC started investigating Zahawi well before the start of this timeline, and that

www.taxpolicy.org.uk

I understand your desire to defend anything Tory so I'll leave it at that, I'm no match for your mental gymnastics.

 

[metalblue]

It is complicated and allows for all kinds of manoeuvres, legal or otherwise. It is, in fact, as variable system as the offside and handball laws in football.

Absolutely correct. The “schemes” available to avoid tax are plentiful, the problem is the legislation is often well intended but people use it out of context for their own gain. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Here he clearly broke the spirit of the law, only he knows if he broke the letter of it.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Did he hide it and lie about it though? If he did I don’t see there being any plausible denial. I do agree if it’s not clear cut HMRC may well have said take the money but that only says it’s not clear cut.

He won’t release the details which will just leave people to make up their own minds. You think he evaded deliberately, I think he didn’t do it deliberately. We both think he’s a sly **** who I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw him.

Assuming it's the same matter, it was reported last year that on the same day that Zahawi was due share value from selling YouGov, a company was set up in Gibraltar headed by a family member with a capital value of exactly the same amount as he was due.

There was nothing accidental about it, but it may just have been something that was hard to prove for certain due to the way the laws work. Probably also that he didn't want the details in court and to be crossexamined, although past evidence suggests that he may have broken the record for use of 'er' in testimony.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

It appears based on evidence posted he tried to avoid. What he appears to have ended up doing is evading. I guess it’s like a manslaughter charge…he didn’t intend to but he did. Although always hard to know how much he really did intend to.

if he had intended to evade he would be facing criminal proceedings. You can’t just say “oh ok I’ll pay it” if you’ve been busted, that’s not how it works.

It does if you are a fucking Tory minister.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I posted this earlier, read it, if you're still of that opinion then I've got a nice bridge you might be interested in...

Nadhim Zahawi - the whole story

UPDATE: this was written on 19 January, and I haven't updated it. We subsequently learned (thanks to the Guardian) that Zahawi had been charged a large penalty. And we now know, thanks to Sir Laurie Magnus, that HMRC started investigating Zahawi well before the start of this timeline, and that

www.taxpolicy.org.uk

I understand your desire to defend anything Tory so I'll leave it at that, I'm no match for your mental gymnastics.

Fiddling fucks, nothing more.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Note to anyone doing their self assessment for the 31st - remember don't overlook that near £30m worth of income you may have forgotten about it will only cost you nearly £3m in penalties down the line...... and when you go to the shops in the morning and shoot a video of yourself please keep your seatbelt on.

Finally a note from Mr Raab - the sea is no longer closed - its just January and fucking cold

 

[Ric]

It appears based on evidence posted he tried to avoid. What he appears to have ended up doing is evading. I guess it’s like a manslaughter charge…he didn’t intend to but he did. Although always hard to know how much he really did intend to.

Give over.