Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

  • Thread starter Thread starter mat
  • Start date Start date
Palerider said:
Looking at immigration as a percentage of population in Europe I can find.
Germany - 23%
UK - 16.8%
Spain - 15.23%
Belgium - 12. 7%
Netherlands - 12%
Italy - 10.6%
France - 10.2%

So we do appear to be pulling our weight a lot more than your average Nazi country (apart from Germany rather ironically). France seems very popular for wealthier immigrants (British) but not so much for poorer immigrants which probably explains why many immigrants risk their lives to get out of Calais!
Click to expand...
That includes Braverman.
 
domalino said:
Click to expand...

That was definitely worth watching again and just when I thought I could give the government some credit for the NI policy, I then realise that there’s obviously some politicking going on when you see Sunak lapping it up like a nodding dog in the background to something so wrong.

They are scum and they’re dragging the rest of us into their abhorrent perspective of the UK.
 
What I also find uncomfortable about this story is the Conservative assumption that the British public is overwhelmingly supportive. It’s clearly a policy designed to galvanise support around the issue, and indeed the Conservatives more generally, yet one rarely hears that underlying assumption questioned in the media. People may well want the issue dealt with, but whether they want their country to break international law to do so is questionable. What next, ‘Get the Boats Done’?
 
Palerider said:
Looking at immigration as a percentage of population in Europe I can find.
Germany - 23%
UK - 16.8%
Spain - 15.23%
Belgium - 12. 7%
Netherlands - 12%
Italy - 10.6%
France - 10.2%

So we do appear to be pulling our weight a lot more than your average Nazi country (apart from Germany rather ironically). France seems very popular for wealthier immigrants (British) but not so much for poorer immigrants which probably explains why many immigrants risk their lives to get out of Calais!
Click to expand...
Are these stats for % of residents who are foreign nationals? Because that’s an imperfect measure of rate of immigration. In Germany it can be difficult to acquire nationality, even if you’re born there, and they don’t allow dual nationality. There are people who migrated to Germany in the 70s or even earlier still living there who can show up as “foreign” on the statistics, which is misleading if we use those stats to measure how much immigration is actually happening right now.
 
mexico1970 said:
If you believe that we are going to have open borders then you are living in la la land, in the scope of human history most people rarely strayed from the village they were born in, you make it sound that people moved to other countries in their millions they didn't.

Again what do you do with failed asylum seekers? Detention would be the answer no?
Click to expand...
Err.....that's nonsense.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Can you remind me what controls we had in place for migration from the EU ? I don't recall any.

As regards the figures from Albania they were reported last night by our national broadcaster.
Click to expand...
You may be confusing immigration with freedom of movement, we had both and control off immigration.We also had controls on freedom of movement which wisely we didn’t enforce.
We needed both and now out of the EU we need immigration even this government realise that.
You also seem to confuse immigration and FOM with asylum seekers and refugees which is also a very different thing and not at all connected. Easy mistake as the government insist on calling refugees illegal immigrants.
 
KPXBLN said:
Are these stats for % of residents who are foreign nationals? Because that’s an imperfect measure of rate of immigration. In Germany it can be difficult to acquire nationality, even if you’re born there, and they don’t allow dual nationality. There are people who migrated to Germany in the 70s or even earlier still living there who can show up as “foreign” on the statistics, which is misleading if we use those stats to measure how much immigration is actually happening right now.
Click to expand...
I just googled 'what percentage of Belgium etc are immigrants'. Can you think of a fairer question to establish whether a country is pro or anti immigration?
 
blueparrot said:
You may be confusing immigration with freedom of movement, we had both and control off immigration.We also had controls on freedom of movement which wisely we didn’t enforce.
We needed both and now out of the EU we need immigration even this government realise that.
You also seem to confuse immigration and FOM with asylum seekers and refugees which is also a very different thing and not at all connected. Easy mistake as the government insist on calling refugees illegal immigrants.
Click to expand...
I'm not confusing anything, FOM resulted in migration, its one and the same, migration is a catch all "term" is it not?

I just noted the comparison in some areas and descripancy in others ie employment ability. And the mess with which both have been handled by our government.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I'm not confusing anything, FOM resulted in migration, its one and the same, migration is a catch all "term" is it not?

I just noted the comparison in some areas and descripancy in others ie employment ability. And the mess with which both have been handled by our government.
Click to expand...
No they aren’t the same but this isn’t about FOM and immigration its about asylum and refugees very very different. Nobody should be allowing anyone especially the government to be getting away with this illegal immigration shit.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I wasn't appointing blame on the uncontrolled immigration , just pointing out that it happened during our tenure in the EU.

I saw on the news yesterday that the majority of those currently coming over on boats are in fact from Albania.

www.bbc.com

Albanian migrants: Why are they coming to the UK and how many have arrived?

Why are Albanian migrants coming to the UK and how many have arrived?
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

It's reasonable to assume that the majority of these people are not refugees is it not? So it's reasonable to assume that once rejected they will continue to get in boats like they do now.

It's very hard to see how to stop this happening is the point I was making.
Click to expand...
I think you've misread that - Albanians are the largest group, but there are three times as many people from the other countries listed.

The focus on Albanians from the government is a cynical one, as it embeds the 'economic migrant' narrative in people's heads, but if you look at the other countries on the list: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eritrea etc., you see places that you would expect refugees to come from.
 
Palerider said:
I just googled 'what percentage of Belgium etc are immigrants'. Can you think of a fairer question to establish whether a country is pro or anti immigration?
Click to expand...
my point is that those figures don't give much of a picture of what's happening now or in the last 5 or 10 years. Since with reference to this legislation we're talking about asylum seekers specifically, a more useful measure would be the number accepted by each country per year in the last 5-10 years - better still, the number as compared to the size of the country's population.
 
A lot of people are scared by the concept of 'freedom of movement' but these same folk hypocritically enjoy the freedom to pop into Yorkshire, Derbyshire or even Wales whenever they feel like it. The FOM in the EU is actually less free than that*, but it's really only the same as having bigger borders. It is not the same as having 'open borders'.

The Schengen countries exchange all sorts of data to which we are no longer privy due to Brexit, so we actually have less information about people who come here, legally or otherwise, than we did!

The most effective tool for controlling illegal migration would be to have ID cards and also to completely ban the cash-in-hand economy. But the odd thing is, the people most exercised by the topic are also the ones most opposed to these practical measures.


*You can skive on the dole in the UK county of your choice, but the likes of Germany limit non-native EU nationals to three months. We could never be bother to enforce this, as it was easier to blame the EU.
 
bluenova said:
I think you've misread that - Albanians are the largest group, but there are three times as many people from the other countries listed.

The focus on Albanians from the government is a cynical one, as it embeds the 'economic migrant' narrative in people's heads, but if you look at the other countries on the list: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eritrea etc., you see places that you would expect refugees to come from.
Click to expand...
Fair point.
 
BrianW said:
The most effective tool for controlling illegal migration would be to have ID cards and also to completely ban the cash-in-hand economy. But the odd thing is, the people most exercised by the topic are also the ones most opposed to these practical measures.
Click to expand...

I would welcome ID cards but the fight against them probably wouldn't be from my demographic mate, after seeing some old bloke struggle with bank cards yesterday cash should always be an option though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top