Today's shooting in America thread

kalouk said:
Is there anything than can realistically be done about this? I know nothing about guns and try to take into account America is a very different place but I don't understand how the country can watch these shootings happen over and over again and yet do nothing. If its a given that guns will never be banned outright then could you limit a family to one gun for protection I saw the Christmas picture of a family further back in the thread with four guns if your only concern is security then why are you posing in front of a Christmas tree like that with them. I know people say about more background checks which is good but you could have perfect mental health until you haven't and when you reach your breaking point you already have a huge collection of guns. I really try not to judge because every country has problems but this is madness and I really don't understand how Americans can let this continue. I don't mean to offend any Americans or gun owners but I genuinely don't understand its heartbreaking.
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Some of the nicest fellas I have met over here are absolutely rabid when it comes to their 2A rights. It defies logic in honesty.

In short, nothing will ever be done.
 
kalouk said:
Is there anything than can realistically be done about this? I know nothing about guns and try to take into account America is a very different place but I don't understand how the country can watch these shootings happen over and over again and yet do nothing. If its a given that guns will never be banned outright then could you limit a family to one gun for protection I saw the Christmas picture of a family further back in the thread with four guns if your only concern is security then why are you posing in front of a Christmas tree like that with them. I know people say about more background checks which is good but you could have perfect mental health until you haven't and when you reach your breaking point you already have a huge collection of guns. I really try not to judge because every country has problems but this is madness and I really don't understand how Americans can let this continue. I don't mean to offend any Americans or gun owners but I genuinely don't understand its heartbreaking.
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There's no need to apologize to the people defending the gun laws; they are callous arseholes. I posted a pic on here yesterday of a kid crying their eyes out on a school bus after the tragedy, terrified out of their young minds. That picture genuinely wrung my heart; and I don't have kids. Now put yourself in the shoes of one of those parents, imagine how they must be feeling? Their child has been murdered by an assault rifle in what should be a place of nurture, all because a few stupid fucking sentences were written on a piece of paper almost three centuries ago. On top of that, vile pieces of shit politicians are glorifying these sentences by posing on CHRISTMAS CARDS with a plethora of firearms, the very things that stole your childs life. I can't begin to describe how angry I would be if I was a parent of one of those poor kids and I had to look at those smiling faces in front of that Christmas tree.

Let's have it right, firearms are manufactured for two reasons; to maim or to kill. That is their purpose. They either debilitate life, or end life: they exist for no other reasons. Dickheads comparing them to cars, which are manufactured to facilitate people's lives and get them from A to B, should try driving a 3 series through a corridor and then into a classroom, and then have the audacity to say it's just as easy as carrying an assault rifle and a shotgun into said classroom. There is no reason, not one reason whatsoever, to stockpile firearms in the manner some Americans do. It's not only perverse, but a dereliction of civic duty against those innocent children who think they are growing up in a happy, safe environment.

For the avoidance of doubt, if you are on here defending these heinous gun laws, in any way, shape, or form, you are a total fucking wanker; and you need to have a long hard look in the mirror.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I see the whole “stones and glasshouses” aspect to the issue, but it would be silly to believe any of the negative reasons why I own guns would have disappeared were I to simply volunteer to give away my guns.

Indeed, unlike your smoking analogy, I’m not saying all guns are bad, or that all gun owners are. What I am saying is that there is a world of space between proliferation and confiscation, and if we could start dealing with the immediate issues, people might realize they not only do not feel less free, but actually enjoy feeling more free!
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You’re right — they won’t have disappeared. That’s precisely the point. They can’t ever disappear because, as all and sundry are so fond of telling us, criminals will always try to get guns.

But non-criminals don’t have to buy them. If non-criminals decide not to, what happens to legal demand? Ask tobacco companies — and they sell a physically addictive product — even harder to give up than guns!

I’m not saying all smokers nor gun owners are bad, at all. But fixing the problem STARTS with gunowners. It’s starts by sacrificing your “freedom” to own — to do something that benefits you and you only — for the greater good.

That’s how nearly all positive change in the world starts, isn’t it? Someone sacrificing themselves for the greater good? Sacrificing a little safety, a little peace of mind?

No gunowner I know looks at it this way.

They should start.
 
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frothy said:
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Fyi, trans people are statistically under represented as mass shooters even if you take all 3 of those (there are * against at least one who had never identified as gender non conforming prior to their arrest for shooting people to death)
 
Blue and true said:
There's no need to apologize to the people defending the gun laws; they are callous arseholes. I posted a pic on here yesterday of a kid crying their eyes out on a school bus after the tragedy, terrified out of their young minds. That picture genuinely wrung my heart; and I don't have kids. Now put yourself in the shoes of one of those parents, imagine how they must be feeling? Their child has been murdered by an assault rifle in what should be a place of nurture, all because a few stupid fucking sentences were written on a piece of paper almost three centuries ago. On top of that, vile pieces of shit politicians are glorifying these sentences by posing on CHRISTMAS CARDS with a plethora of firearms, the very things that stole your childs life. I can't begin to describe how angry I would be ...
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You are right, so is the rest of your justifiably emotional post.
But it ain't going to change. The Republicans in Congress won't budge on gun controls and Democrats won't push for it because it's not an election vote winner and might even be a vote loser. Many Democrats reckon that supporting tighter gun laws lets the other side paint them as dangerous radicals, which could push people to vote Republican at election time.

(I was in a bar in rural Pennsylvania today, "Deer Hunter" country, and the talk was of getting back down to the gun store at the weekend because "liberals want to take away our right to defend our homes ...." )
 
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Blue and true said:
Let's have it right, firearms are manufactured for two reasons; to maim or to kill. That is their purpose. They either debilitate life, or end life: they exist for no other reasons.
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They exist to use on animate and inanimate objects.

You over emotionally imply that they are only manufactured and available for use against people, which simply isn't true, unless for military purposes.

Guns are not the problem, the control and regulation of them in the US is. That along with a lack of desire by lawmakers to make any positive changes.

TFC makes a good point, "Some of the nicest fellas I have met over here are absolutely rabid when it comes to their 2A rights." The point isn't taking guns away, it's restricting the types of firearms available and where they can be carried/used. It works all around the world, so why not in America?

Realistically there is no need to own an AR-15 (amongst others) and there is no need to walk around town with a handgun. This isn't the Wild West, although it's becoming like it.
 
Slipper One said:
They exist to use on animate and inanimate objects.

You over emotionally imply that they are only manufactured and available for use against people, which simply isn't true, unless for military purposes.

Guns are not the problem, the control and regulation of them in the US is. That along with a lack of desire by lawmakers to make any positive changes.

TFC makes a good point, "Some of the nicest fellas I have met over here are absolutely rabid when it comes to their 2A rights." The point isn't taking guns away, it's restricting the types of firearms available and where they can be carried/used. It works all around the world, so why not in America?

Realistically there is no need to own an AR-15 (amongst others) and there is no need to walk around town with a handgun. This isn't the Wild West, although it's becoming like it.
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Do you see people walking around with handguns ?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
You’re right — they won’t have disappeared. That’s precisely the point. They can’t ever disappear because, as all and sundry are so fond of telling us, criminals will always try to get guns.

But non-criminals don’t have to buy them. If non-criminals decide not to, what happens to legal demand? Ask tobacco companies — and they sell a physically addictive product — even harder to give up than guns!

I’m not saying all smokers nor gun owners are bad, at all. But fixing the problem STARTS with gunowners. It’s starts by sacrificing your “freedom” to own — to do something that benefits you and you only — for the greater good.

That’s how nearly all positive change in the world starts, isn’t it? Someone sacrificing themselves for the greater good? Sacrificing a little safety, a little peace of mind?

No gunowner I know looks at it this way.

They should start.
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While I can see where you are coming from, I believe the effort should be in restricting and controlling and not in banning completely.

As I mentioned, it works fine elsewhere when it is implemented properly and with authority. I don't personally know of anybody who resents the licensing (just for GDM) procedure required to own an unrestricted firearm, much like they don't when taking a driving test to drive a car.
 
Slipper One said:
While I can see where you are coming from, I believe the effort should be in restricting and controlling and not in banning completely.

As I mentioned, it works fine elsewhere when it is implemented properly and with authority. I don't personally know of anybody who resents the licensing (just for GDM) procedure required to own an unrestricted firearm, much like they don't when taking a driving test to drive a car.
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How does this happen when the 2A says what it says, the product lobby wants ease and expansion, not restrictions and control, and the very elected representatives who are supposed to be listening to constituents are offering up Xmas cards with their entire families holding long rifles?

You’re right, and by the way, add huge taxes, add heftier penalties for improper storage, add whatever. It would all help. But it isn’t happening, is it? It isn’t because such legislation can’t be passed today, tomorrow, nor ever, because guns are a Pandora’s box and every attempt to curtail is viewed even by most responsible gunowners as a “slippery slope.” There is no compromise. Period.

My way has nothing to do with laws, freedom, elections, lobbies nor politics. It’s simply non-violent resistance. It’s a buyers’ strike. Boycotting. By consumers.

I’m already in. Gunowners, how about you? If you can’t, why not? If you won’t, why not?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
How does this happen when the 2A says what it says, the product lobby wants ease and expansion, not restrictions and control, and the very elected representatives who are supposed to be listening to constituents are offering up Xmas cards with their entire families holding long rifles?

You’re right, and by the way, add huge taxes, add heftier penalties for improper storage, add whatever. It would all help. But it isn’t happening, is it? It isn’t because such legislation can’t be passed today, tomorrow, nor ever, because guns are a Pandora’s box and every attempt to curtail is viewed even by most responsible gunowners as a “slippery slope.” There is no compromise. Period.

My way has nothing to do with laws, freedom, elections, lobbies nor politics. It’s simply non-violent resistance. It’s a buyers’ strike. Boycotting. By consumers.

I’m already in. Gunowners, how about you? If you can’t, why not? If you won’t, why not?
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Well, I enjoy my guns and I find my Beretta O/U a thing of beauty.

I also enjoy my garden and growing things, especially my vegetables, I find it very rewarding and satisfying.

However, I don't enjoy my efforts being destroyed by squirrels, so my shotgun deals with any that happen to stray onto the estate. We also have too many crows, so I'll pop some off to squawk to their hearts content in Crow Heaven. I've come to tolerate the very few rabbits I have around, but again, if they keep up their end of the bargain and don't damage my veggies, then I'll not put them in my sights. The moment they do, they are done!! I have a skunk mooching around the place and he doesn't cause me any problems, although he'll make a huge mess of my lawn in the spring digging up grubs. I can tolerate that as a trade off, it will repair.

We're presently in lambing season and coyotes are a viscous killer, a sheep or lamb hasn't a chance against them. The Maremma do a wonderful job guarding the flock, but if the coyote pack has real designs on mutton, then they are hard pressed to stop an attack.

There's no issue at the moment and eliminating the pack would only bring in new animals to take up the territory and it's perhaps better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

They are certainly there and very aware of the sheep and unfortunately some poor defenceless animal will have to suffer an awful death first, because it's probably only a matter of time. A rifle will do an admirable job on a coyote.

I also enjoy target shooting out into the field up to 220 yards with the .22, just to keep my eye in.

Personally, I have no interest in shooting deer, moose, bear or turkeys etc, although I do acknowledge that it is important to keep control on the numbers and government wildlife management ensures this using a tag method for hunters.



No humans were harmed in the writing of this.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Possibly but I'm sure our frothy friend has a history of making transphobic posts.

What the fuck does it matter?

I'm not sure gender critical views do anything to help stop the situation from happening again.

The trans status of the shooter Is either a complete irrelevance or the close minded society and educational background may have triggered the mental issues that put them in a place where they sought out this perverted revenge.
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I have no idea who the poster is I just respond to content. I believe these gender issues are a mental issue. If the path we are on will help that I'm not convinced at all.
 
domalino said:
No offence Tolmie but you're missing the wood for the trees.

AR15s have been responsible for all of the worst mass shootings in American history. It's a proven fact that while they didn't stop entirely, the frequency and number of casualties in mass shootings dropped massively under the assault rifle ban of the 90's.

They have been banned before and they can be banned again.


No one is getting rid of all guns in America, and plenty of countries that allow people to have guns don't have the mass shooting problems of the US so there's no point talking about getting rid of all guns.
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No offence taken.

My issue is guns, full stop.

I'd imagine if we also added up all the deaths from guns in America over the course of a year, the majority would be handguns from robberies, police shootouts and gang related?

My argument is that these pricks wanting to shoot up kids in schools will do it regardless of their weapon of choice.

A mass shooting in America is defined by a lower number than most would expect?

One too many for me when it comes to innocent kids.

If some people want to ban AR15s, others will just buy the next best option.

If Congress were somehow able to implement such a ban, I still fail to see how they enforce it to round up all the AR15s in circulation.

A brilliant country, some brilliant people, but still a baby and many making infantile choices.
 
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