It's Quiet 18 - Wanna ring the bell?

Status
Not open for further replies.
For those saying we are weaker with Gundo gone thats true in some way we are weaker offensively due to the goals Gundo scored, but we've improved defensively again.

Kovacic is world class in press resistance , ball carrying , keeping possession. With Rodri those two can't be pressed. You add Gvardiol that defensive structure is the best defence the prem has seen I'd say. We had an incredible defensive structure last season which teams struggled to get passed. Which contributed massively to the treble as we could just control games easily.

Now you've added one of the best press resistant midfielders in Kovacic who's also very good defensively. Then trying to add Gvardiol who's the best young cb in the world.

Defence wins you titles.

Akanji Stones Dias Gvardiol. (Ake, Walker Phillips on the bench)
Rodri. Kovacic

That defence has no weakness press resistant, playmaking ability, best 1v1 defending in the world. Break lines, pace. Its complete control.
 
Dribble said:
I tend to agree. Tchouameni, Camavinga, Bellingham & Valverdé are Real's midfield future post Modric & Kroos.

HOWEVER, the twist in the plot is Mbappé. Will Real risk waiting a season & getting him on a free? OR will they strike now so they don't lose out on him for a second time?

Only if Real decide to spunk £200m on him this summer can I see Tchouameni/Valverdé possibly being sacrificed to bring in Kylian.

I suppose we'll have to wait & see hey? \0/
Click to expand...
If I were Real, I'd wait. There is simply no other team Mbappe will go too.

Here is the list ( And I'm being generous here)

Barca, Bayern, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, United, Arsenal.

You can dismiss Barca and Bayern, and Liverpool and Arsenal as they don't have the money to do it. You can dismiss Chelsea because they currently aren't a CL club even though they have the money.

This pretty much leaves City and United as his only options outside Madrid. He turned us down at 17. And he sure isn't gonna go to United.

So that leaves just 1 real option. Real. And that's the real of the issue.
 
Dax777 said:
If I were Real, I'd wait. There is simply no other team Mbappe will go too.

Here is the list ( And I'm being generous here)

Barca, Bayern, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, United, Arsenal.

You can dismiss Barca and Bayern, and Liverpool and Arsenal as they don't have the money to do it. You can dismiss Chelsea because they currently aren't a CL club even though they have the money.

This pretty much leaves City and United as his only options outside Madrid. He turned us down at 17. And he sure isn't gonna go to United.

So that leaves just 1 real option. Real. And that's the real of the issue.
Click to expand...
We all thought it was a done deal the last time, but PSG handed Kylian the keys to Paris to prove a point to Real.

That's one expensive lesson to learn & it hasn't advanced PSG one jot... Will Real risk waiting until next summer to get him on a free again?
 
Dribble said:
We all thought it was a done deal the last time, but PSG handed Kylian the keys to Paris to prove a point to Real.

That's one expensive lesson to learn & it hasn't advanced PSG one jot... Will Real risk waiting until next summer to get him on a free again?
Click to expand...
Look how that PSG lesson turned out. It was a disaster for PSG. In the meantime Real won a CL and lost a Semi to the current best team a year later.

Now they've built a stunner of a young team full of speed and Athleticism. And they are just waiting on the Crown Jewel.

Everyone and their mama know it. From the outside that looks like a 10 year dominant team if Mbappe joins that crew.

Mbappe is tailor made for that team. Everyone can see it. What they need is a manager.

PSG knows now they should have let him go for 150 three yrs ago. Keeping him was a dumb and wasteful decision. They won nothing they won't have won without him.
 
TonyM said:
I don't think many people were being overly negative yesterday. Just a tad disappointed and a tad confused.

I don't think there's any need to shut that down. IMO we should be encouraging people to voice their opinions and concerns on the forum cos..
1. There's nothing else to do in the summer
2. No one should be offended by what is said because this is just a forum largely made up of middle aged men with nothing more productive to do with their spare time
3. We are completely irrelevant to anyone actually involved in transfers
4. Once the season starts we can get back to normality (which is back to point 2 obviosly)
Click to expand...

Hold up...why was I supposed to be a tad disappointed and confused yesterday?
 
Dax777 said:
Kovacic is the Gundo style replacement. Yes Szobo and Viega are more Foden and Kev like. I think that was the whole point. You want a multidimensional attacking mid.

We don't need to put down a good player. Rice is objectively a good player. You can see this when you watch him. That said, we don't need to get him. There are more good players than there are squad positions. So clearly, lots of good players will go to other teams.

"its just how the thing go." To quote my favorite battle rapper. :) You win some you lose some. For those who loved Rice, we lost this one. It won't be the first or last. We'll lose many more. But the one we win, and how they help us achieve... Now that's where the magic is at!!!

Don't mind me. I'm in my bag today :)
Click to expand...
It's refreshing that you're recognizing the difference between, good and top class /world class and the comparison i have seen from Twitter Twats between Rice and Busquets, Rodri, etc.

I see it like this. In a distant galaxy, take Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Ateltico. Imagine or remember their midfield.

Ask yourself this, when these were at the peak, would Rice be playing in any of the midfields. Considering that they have clamped European Championships for over a decade. And to top it all off, would any of the above teams, pay 120-130 million euros for him.
 
MafeotulBlue said:
It's refreshing that you're recognizing the difference between, good and top class /world class and the comparison i have seen from Twitter Twats between Rice and Busquets, Rodri, etc.

I see it like this. In a distant galaxy, take Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Ateltico. Imagine or remember their midfield.

Ask yourself this, when these were at the peak, would Rice be playing in any of the midfields. Considering that they have clamped European Championships for over a decade. And to top it all off, would any of the above teams, pay 120-130 million euros for him.
Click to expand...
I like Rice. Think he is a potential top player. He is similar to Rodri when we wanted Rodri. So I'm not going to downplay how good he is.

1 don't think he is worth 100 million, but then again my bias towards attacking minded players means I don't think any defensive minded player, including Rodri or Peak Busquet is worth 100 million.

But my valuation matrix is different. Clearly City Management has a different valuation than I do. Because they clearly thought Rice was worth something around 90 million or more. That's about 50 million over my valuation.

But like they say, a player is worth what someone is willing to pay. Regardless of what my personal dumb opinion is on how valuation should be viewed.

But here is mine:

Established WC attacking player at top club : 100 million or above is okay.

Established WC attacking potential player at Midtable Club: 40 - 75 Mill is max

Established WC defensive players at Top clubs:
50 - 75 mil

Potential WC defensive players at Midtable or foreign club: 25 - 60 Million.

Good Role players: 10 - 40 mill

By my valuation system, you can see we are already overpaying for Gvardiol.

And that's why I don't take my view on valuation seriously. I have to simply accept that Clubs value players differently. And it isn't my place to judge that value. Just to be happy when my club agrees with my valuation and bow out when necessary.
 
Never really wanted Rice so jot too bothered at all about not getting him....rather keep Bernardo Silva.
If he goes then we need someone...possibly 2 aa you can't replace Bernardo with just one player as he is that good

Think pep has in mind that McAtee may make a step up

The only real concern is Kdb and his fitness and ability to compete through a whole season

If we're yo sign snyone it would Wirtz and Vega for me...both look like they would be automatically competing for places in our starting 11. The likes of Rice I don't think would

It's more exciting this way knowing that we now don't have a clue who we may go for....if anyone.....if we get another surprise level signing like Akanji, Dias after missing vouchers on the original targets before them then we will be sorted
 
Gumzy97 said:
For those saying we are weaker with Gundo gone thats true in some way we are weaker offensively due to the goals Gundo scored, but we've improved defensively again.

Kovacic is world class in press resistance , ball carrying , keeping possession. With Rodri those two can't be pressed. You add Gvardiol that defensive structure is the best defence the prem has seen I'd say. We had an incredible defensive structure last season which teams struggled to get passed. Which contributed massively to the treble as we could just control games easily.

Now you've added one of the best press resistant midfielders in Kovacic who's also very good defensively. Then trying to add Gvardiol who's the best young cb in the world.

Defence wins you titles.

Akanji Stones Dias Gvardiol. (Ake, Walker Phillips on the bench)
Rodri. Kovacic

That defence has no weakness press resistant, playmaking ability, best 1v1 defending in the world. Break lines, pace. Its complete control.
Click to expand...
 
samuelyeboah said:
I am rubbing my eyes in disbelief. There are genuinely people here who think winning 5 out of the last 6 titles, winning a treble, is "closer to fortunate than it is to good planning". Just absolute insanity, I don't know what to say.

"We don't have a left back, we have one senior right back" - not only are both of these false (Nathan Ake, Rico Lewis, Kyle Walker), we are also adding Gvardiol to it, and we also don't even PLAY with left backs.

"We have limited options out wide" - I would venture a guess almost any team in the world would kill to have Jack Grealish, Phil Foden, Bernardo Silva and Riyad Mahrez as their "options out wide".

"Our bench is topped up with players Pep does not trust to play meaningful minutes" - let's take the 11 that played the most minutes this season. They are, sorted by minutes played - Rodri, Ederson, Haaland, Gundogan, Akanji, KDB, Bernardo, Grealish, Dias, Mahrez, Ake.
That means that our "bench" is - Kyle Walker, John stones, Phil Foden, Julian Alvarez, Aymeric Laporte, Rico Lewis, Ortega, Palmer, Gomez, Phillips.
Yeah, full of untrusted players.

"If arsenal hadn't dropped stupid points, we wouldn't have won the league" - yeah, welcome to every season in every league in history! We won the league with 89 points, and that's because we let it go after winning it officially. We were on course for a 95 point season. This DOESNT HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT. It would be, what, the 4th or 5th highest point total in PL history? Yeah, so lucky to have won it.

"Every team around us is significantly strengthening" - and so are we. Kovacic, Gvardiol are magnificent additions. More will come through the door. The team is being refreshed. Countless times we've missed out on the first target and didn't regret it one bit. I am baffled some people think it's always due to luck and not because of our superior financial planning AND refusal to pay over the odds, leaving us with more money to invest in the organization.
Click to expand...
Absolutely all this and more. We have just done the treble and the hunger and desire will still be there no doub as it is what Pep is about. Any team that wants our crown are going to have to be one of the best teams in history. We are streets ahead and by far the best football club in the world. Our dynasty has plenty of time to run.
 
Dax777 said:
I like Rice. Think he is a potential top player. He is similar to Rodri when we wanted Rodri. So I'm not going to downplay how good he is.

1 don't think he is worth 100 million, but then again my bias towards attacking minded players means I don't think any defensive minded player, including Rodri or Peak Busquet is worth 100 million.

But my valuation matrix is different. Clearly City Management has a different valuation than I do. Because they clearly thought Rice was worth something around 90 million or more. That's about 50 million over my valuation.

But like they say, a player is worth what someone is willing to pay. Regardless of what my personal dumb opinion is on how valuation should be viewed.

But here is mine:

Established WC attacking player at top club : 100 million or above is okay.

Established WC attacking potential player at Midtable Club: 40 - 75 Mill is max

Established WC defensive players at Top clubs:
50 - 75 mil

Potential WC defensive players at Midtable or foreign club: 25 - 60 Million.

Good Role players: 10 - 40 mill

By my valuation system, you can see we are already overpaying for Gvardiol.

And that's why I don't take my view on valuation seriously. I have to simply accept that Clubs value players differently. And it isn't my place to judge that value. Just to be happy when my club agrees with my valuation and bow out when necessary.
Click to expand...
Brilliant type of evaulation here.

But, again, we are sampling something here which as you have said, can be subjective.

All of Real Madrids young midfielders are players worth over 100 million. Age, potential, capability, league, honours for some already.

All of our own players, are probably worth more if we put the midfield in line with current market value, performances, and skill. Imagine selling KDB, Rodri, and Bernardo at actual value. We would rebuild the Rags's Shit Stadium just with that.

In our own defense, it appears, most of our top performers, and most of our incredible players have come from Bundesliga. ( KDB, Halaand, Akanji etc ) External league doesn't neccessarly mean the quality isn't there in the player.

However, i cannot, for the life of me, accept that Declan Rice is worth more than 55-60 with add-ons. And our 90 bid was clearly a muscle flex, and a bait bigger than Burj Dubai. We're masters at it.

And Gvardiol, he's another Dias. Just a different flavour.
 
Dax777 said:
I've been saying the same. I see lots of Gundogan in Kovacic. My only fear is his injury history. Seems to get niggles a bit.

Outside of that I think he is money
Click to expand...
Absolutely - It was daft with Rice to look at goals scored as he played for a team that scored 69 goals in 57 games. City are the highest scorers in England, and I think Europe, nearly every season, with well over double the number of goals. Chelsea were even poorer, 50 goals in 50 games.

I agree about the injuries - seen a few Chelsea fans suggest that his biggest issue - but if you move to City and Pep wants you to score, he'll put you in the positions to do so.
 
The more I think about it, Pep prefers a small but versatile squad rather than having " 2 players for every position" that haters love to say about city. Rather, we have a group of 16-18 HIGH QUALITY players who can play multiple positions. This is good to avoid squad disharmony in terms of playing time and also we get a more tight-knit group.

If we assume we keep the players we want to keep/get only kovacic and gvardiol and players like laporte, cancelo etc leave then we can start the season with this:
 

Attachments

  • lineup.png
    lineup.png
    136.3 KB · Views: 69
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top