HS2 - Birmingham to Manchester scrapped.

[TinFoilHat]

Isn't part of the problem that the route from Picc to the Ordsall chord (via Oxford Road and Deansgate) remained as two tracks rather than be extended to four as originally planned? Or am I thinking of a different bit of track?

Yep.

There was going to be a relief spur put in at Piccadilly. All of a sudden the funding dried up when Burnham was elected mayor IIRC?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Isn't part of the problem that the route from Picc to the Ordsall chord (via Oxford Road and Deansgate) remained as two tracks rather than be extended to four as originally planned? Or am I thinking of a different bit of track?

Chris Graying never authorised the upgrades at Piccadilly to make the Ordsall curve operate at full capacity. I understand that because of this it runs at somewhere between 10 and 20% capacity.

 

[grunge]

We shall have to dissagree to dissagree.

Did you look at the freight case paper?

Yep Posted it with a link above for those interested, lots of words very little detail in how that would actually work or where the capacity would come from. A prediction from 1 body, not even a national level body.

"Sub-national Transport Body, Midlands Connect, predicts that the full HS2 network will create space on the existing railnetwork for up to 144 extra freight trains per day". My guess is they cherry picked the highest figures they could find. probably based on moving all the london->manchester trains from the WML to HS2 which it wont.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So you pretty much googled to find out what to google but couldn't post the link. OK then.

for those that want it.

https://logistics.org.uk/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=26280145-1894-452e-8f18-7193fc0a5646&lang=en-GB

Edit: so the article in question, "High Speed 2 (HS2) will present opportunities for freight on the existingrail network." However HS2 wont free up much if any existing capacity without major routes being hit and passenger journey's being disutped in a massive way.

Also, it quotes some other sources for there figures without actually showing how exactly that capacity would work in terms of existing services.

Thanks for posting. No I couldn't get the link to work.

But you can see the numbers I posted weren't just made up.

 

[grunge]

Thanks for posting. No I couldn't get the link to work.

But you can see the numbers I posted weren't just made up.

I never claimed you made them up. just asked where you had seen them :)

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Let's not forget, Crossrail has cost £24B. How much of the Country does that serve. ? They are already planning Crossrail 2 and a 2 nd Dartford Thames crossing at a combined cost of £40B.

Bet these both get built before Stockport gets the tram extension.

 

[MCFC Wirral]

The biggest cost was the construction of anti-jibbing barriers to accommodate our Merseyside cousins.

I didn’t get tickets checked between Lime Street and Crewe when I was going to Tamworth v Hereford. I’d say about half the platforms don’t have barriers which seems suicidal for Liverpool.

 

[give it to gordon]

If HS2 had started in Manchester you can guarantee that there wouldnt be any talk of not finishing at London

 

[west didsblue]

If HS2 had started in Manchester you can guarantee that there wouldnt be any talk of not finishing at London

It’s not finishing in central London. It’s finishing a few yards from Wormwood Scrubs making it ideal for Brummies wanting to visit prisoners which appears to be a very niche market. Not much use for anything else unless they finish it.

 

[MikeF]

I find the whole debacle incredibly depressing. 14 years on from the original concept and here we are. I can’t imagine any other country in the world being so shite.

 

[Scottyboi]

I hope it does get cancelled, destroys Cheshire with no benefit for it. Chin it off.

 

[city2]

If this started in Manchester it would get finished no doubt

 

[Jimmieblue]

Reading this thread, it’s obvious why nothing ever gets done in the north. Surely we elect governments to come up with great ideas to make life easier for the whole country and then complete the f…..g thing. They need to impose penalty clauses on the companies that don’t fulfill their contracts and sack the overpaid bosses of these companies. This is simplistic I know, but in my lifetime I’ve only ever seen the extension to the M6 and the Bay Gateway finished. Meanwhile in Europe they’ve been rolling out miles and miles of roads, roundabouts, railway lines bridges, tunnels all off out net contribution to the EU. Rant over, take no notice, just got back via that shambles of an airport at Ringway!

 

[Grassland Blue]

That’s bollocks mate. Think about it
Where are these HGV’s going? They’re not all going to Euston or Piccadilly, so they have to be loaded and unloaded somewhere and when unloaded then carried again by lorry
London to Manchester is, in the grand scheme of things, only a short distance
if you’re transporting containers across Europe or the USA then freight becomes far more cost effective to ship via rail
If I have a container of goods that I want to ship from Trafford Park to Dartford, it’ll cost about £1000
If I had to ship it to a local depot where it would be unloaded, then stored, loaded onto a train, transported south, unloaded again, loaded onto another truck and then delivered to its destination, the cost will have more than doubled and so will the journey time

Trafford Park to Wembley, Southampton, Folkestone etc.

 

[Dial M 4 Mercer]

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Technically Crossrail was much more challenging. Tunnelling across parts of London, lots of very complex interfaces to manage etc. HS2 was needlessly made more complicated than was necessary due to the route being designed by committee. Lots of limitations were imposed by politicians due to pressure from voters and nimbys in the home counties so that they didnt lose votes.

The french pretty much draw a line and build the railway we fuck about for ages trying to satisfy every individual.

If they do cancel it, I would hope that the money is ring fenced for the north, as once again we've been short changed after being promised the so called Northern Powerhouse which now seems dead in the water.

I’m 99.99% sure it won’t be.

 

[Kompany Car]

I’m 99.99% sure it won’t be.

So you're saying there's a chance ? Far more optimistic than me mate.

 

[urban genie]

Well it is now, for us northern peasants at least

 

[The Black Shed]

Well it is now, for us northern peasants at least

Burnham is absolutely right. And I say that as an exiled Manc living in the south. I'm angry for everyone up there having to put up with this shit, continuously, day after day.

 

[Ribble73]

Reading this thread, it’s obvious why nothing ever gets done in the north. Surely we elect governments to come up with great ideas to make life easier for the whole country and then complete the f…..g thing. They need to impose penalty clauses on the companies that don’t fulfill their contracts and sack the overpaid bosses of these companies. This is simplistic I know, but in my lifetime I’ve only ever seen the extension to the M6 and the Bay Gateway finished. Meanwhile in Europe they’ve been rolling out miles and miles of roads, roundabouts, railway lines bridges, tunnels all off out net contribution to the EU. Rant over, take no notice, just got back via that shambles of an airport at Ringway!

Part of it is Modern Politicians know in their time none of this will be finished. So any long term projects like HS2 don’t interest them at at. None of this current shower of Arseholes in Parliament have the interests of the Country at heart. All they are bothered about is their own Careers.