Middle East Conflict

[inbetween]

They are created out of a warped view of Islam by evil men who want nothing but power and control with little to no care about any sort of benefit for the people they pretend to care for.

To think they only want to deliver their people from hopelessness and poverty is simply not believable I’m afraid.

That's the first thing I'd do if I was poor. Start an 'Islamist Resistance Movement' and start procuring AK47's and building rockets. Maybe instead of dropping bombs on ISIS we should of just dropped pound notes and it would all be sorted?

When people say they're only doing this because they're poor, it's such a weak argument and completely misses the point of what is happening in that region. Poverty is rife because that region is tangled by religious nonsense. Look at Iran, it really could be an incredible ally and economic powerhouse but religion constantly ties it down.

WW2 shaped Germany into what it is today and it got there by defeat but that defeat led it to reject extremism and look where they are now. West and East Germany could of spent 100 years fighting over the geopolitics of the West and Soviets/Russia but ultimately that politics was rejected and literally torn down in 1989.

 

[The blue phantom]

Folk already up in arms that the FA have decided the Minutes silence should be for both Israelis & Palestinians.

 

[ScottSinclair]

Wonder how likely it is the US and Iran clashes over this.

World just get scarier by the day. Just need China to go into Taiwan now for all hell to break loose and melt this all into a huge world-war I'm afraid. Hopefully people with way more insight can calm me down

 

[CTID1988]

The Chicago Black Lives Matter twitter account posted this the other day. Madness

 

[paulchapo]

Wonder how likely it is the US and Iran clashes over this.

World just get scarier by the day. Just need China to go into Taiwan now for all hell to break loose and melt this all into a huge world-war I'm afraid. Hopefully people with way more insight can calm me down

Nothing would surprise me. The ordinary person in the street would think why the fuck would anyone want to commit such insanity. Unfortunately it's ordinary people in these countries who carry them out, on the orders of raving psychopaths who couldn't give a fuck about them.

 

[SWP's back]

I think you can say that for any belief system be it religion or politics, communism has far more blood on it's hands than religion ever has, but many of them were convinced that killing millions was helping the cause of humanity anyway I digress

That’s not remotely true. Stalin didn’t have think for a single second he was helping humanity. He was a sociopath that only cared about power and was well aware he wasn’t doing anything remotely good for humanity.

 

[SWP's back]

A similar story was posted yesterday also , Isreal most certainly were caught with their pants down ,

I’d genuinely be more pissed off of the Welsh had us with our pants down to that extent and it’s not as if we’d be expecting it. Surely the IDF are ALWAYS on alert for such a thing.

 

[SWP's back]

The point is the existence of The Hague will offer no comfort or consolation to those suffering. It will be of little consideration to those who will be fighting either.

Oh right. Totally agree then.

 

[trueblue1972]

I’d genuinely be more pissed off of the Welsh had us with our pants down to that extent and it’s not as if we’d be expecting it. Surely the IDF are ALWAYS on alert for such a thing.

You would have thought so . Having lived there, im absolutely shocked, I understood the issues that they had with the tunnels that were built, but this is different

 

[Metal Biker]

So we need to fix the old testament then and any reference to the promised land therein?

No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.

Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.

It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.

 

[trueblue1972]

No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.

Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.

It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.

My thoughts entirely

 

[DTKOAG]

Folk already up in arms that the FA have decided the Minutes silence should be for both Israelis & Palestinians.

View attachment 95742

The FA should not even get Involved in this.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Wonder how likely it is the US and Iran clashes over this.

World just get scarier by the day. Just need China to go into Taiwan now for all hell to break loose and melt this all into a huge world-war I'm afraid. Hopefully people with way more insight can calm me down

best to try and limit how much you read and see into all this, i know that's hard.
You can't control any of this so can only focus on you and your close ones.
I had mad anxiety when Covid hit the news and after that i promised myself never to get worried about stuff outside my control.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The FA should not even get Involved in this.

they can't win whatever they do.

 

[Ducado]

But that statement is not true, many times they have turned down offers of a large state but have been pressured not to accept by various Arab states!

This is a good and interesting watch from the early 70's!

Just because for various reasons a solution has not be found does not make the root cause of the issue false, things change, attitudes change, geo politics change

 

[Ducado]

No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.

Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.

It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.

Well said, it should be the top of the agenda to get this mess sorted out once and for all, it's a gapping wound that has been allowed to fester for far too long

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.

Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.

It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.

I was simply noting ‘The root cause’ of this isn’t what Ducado stated it was. We’re now looking at the latest ‘branch’ of disagreement over hundreds/thousands of years of disagreements stemming from the root cause, which is religion and a belief in a promised land. Wasn’t meant to be any more than that. Religion is still the root of this dispute, irrespective of how many branches that root grew. Get rid of religious doctrine/beliefs, and we might have a chance.

 

[trueblue1972]

I was simply noting ‘The root cause’ of this isn’t what Ducado stated it was. We’re now looking at the latest ‘branch’ of disagreement over hundreds/thousands of years of disagreements stemming from the root cause, which is religion and a belief in a promised land. Wasn’t meant to be any more than that. Religion is still the root of this dispute, irrespective of how many branches that root grew. Get rid of religious doctrine/beliefs, and we might have a chance.

More chance if the rags winning the league this season

 

[inbetween]

No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.

Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.

It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.

A two-state solution is the only solution, until everyone accepts that then it'll just carry on. It requires negotiation away from whatever lines were drawn in the sand in the past, that's the only way to achieve peace. A state of Palestine should exist alongside a State of Israel.

The biggest obstacle as you say to a two-state solution is religion, fundamentally that's what shapes everything in this conflict. Religion is literally what defines the lands and borders from a political policy view but from a historical view you could go back thousands of years if you really wanted to.

Doing it like that is pretty stupid though. I mean look at the UK, who actually does 'British' land belong to? The Crown technically owns all land now but that history only goes back what 1000 years? What about the Vikings, Romans or even the French? Who is it really if we look at it from a whole historical perspective?

This is why it's really stupid for some people to consider land in terms of religious and historical ownership because then it is neither Palestinian nor Israeli land. This is especially true for ownership within the last century which is essentially just collateral of the collapse of the British empire.

 

[Aphex]

Not once have I said that Israel should not respond and sit back, but organisations like Hamas are only created out of hopelessness and poverty

There is an election coming up after all

As for the BLM, they’ve always been this way. If you take the Marxist mentally of tearing down modern systems you have to do what they posted on Twitter.