Middle East Conflict

Ric said:
I presume it’s in reference to the alleged beheading of babies, which as far as I’m aware is still actually unverified. The very fact that babies were massacred is probably more important than arguments about the actual nature of their killing though.
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Yes, its a great argument isn't it? "They didn't behead them they only shot them, the reports were false, just propaganda".
 
trueblue1972 said:
Russia sharply condemned Israel's strikes (according to Russian media statements) at the airports of Damascus and Aleppo.

“These actions by the Israeli side represent a gross violation of the sovereignty of the Syrian Arab Republic and the basic norms of international law. In the context of a sharp aggravation of the situation in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict zone, such forceful actions are fraught with extremely dangerous consequences, since they can provoke an armed escalation throughout the region. This is not the case. “in no case should it be allowed to happen,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement" ..
"
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Those cunts have got some brass neck.
 
Ric said:
I presume it’s in reference to the alleged beheading of babies, which as far as I’m aware is still actually unverified. The very fact that babies were massacred is probably more important than arguments about the actual nature of their killing though.
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I thought that too Ric about babies being massacred. Despicable. I think most posters feel that Hamas are so evil that they are capable of such terrible crimes. I also think fair points were also made about reporting can be in an inaccurate during war times.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Given the highly emotive and horrific scenes (on both sides) and that there are diametrically opposed partisan views, I think this thread has been a good one overall. Far better than some in the past.

I think it's clear to virtually everyone on here that there are no winners and only losers from this action. Even people who take a pro-Palestinian view have been appalled by the Hamas action and all but the most pro-Israeli are highly critical of their actions as well.
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Top post PB.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Truly awful scenes and stories from both sides of the conflict onnthe news. Hamas commit horrific attrocities and incite justified Isreali revenge.

However despite backing Israels right to hunt down and 100% destroy Hamas. I find the scenes from the Gaza strip after bombing of civilians and the lock down on the entire population horrific.

If I lived in Gaza as a normal person and came home to find my wife and family killed by an indiscriminate Isreali air strike I would be picking up a gun a trying to kill as many of the IDF personnel as I could. This violence perpetrates more violence. What a total nightmare.
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I don't know why Israel's revenge is justified. I understand the anger, and I was sickened by Hamas's terroristic acts. But an attack on the Palestine people in Gaza is exactly what Hamas wants.

I know it's going to be hard, but Isreal's retaliation should be to strike at Hamas. Frankly, the UN should strike at Hamas. But not with bombs on Gaza.... With pressure on Qatar and Iran and paying moderates to kidnap and kill these folks off.


Hamas is a stain on Palestine. Erase it. Not the Palestinians.
 
domalino said:
I’m not one of the posters you’re talking about, but whats the point in posting this?

You don’t actually believe that the posters you’re referring to don’t care about babies being tortured and beheaded. No one believes that.


So the only reason you’re posting it is to throw petrol on the fire again. Or you think it’s worth some sort of points in some fucked up morality game?

It’s the absolute worst of this thread and online forums in general. Fuck off with it.


Bluemoon is a good forum, this is the leading news story in the world, and some of us would like to follow and discuss it without the minority turning it into an excuse to troll, fan flames and pretend people are indifferent to the murder of innocent children.
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Well said. I think the majority of posters just want to be able to discuss what is clearly a seismic global story free from this sort of stuff.

To their credit, many with close emotional ties to either side of the debate have been able to do so. Any right-minded person will be appalled by the deaths of innocent civilians on both sides.

Does feel like a small minority are intent on stoking the fires of hatred though, using inflammatory language or allegations to goad others. If that’s your intention then please stay away from the thread, or face a thread ban.
 
Dax777 said:
I don't know why Israel's revenge is justified. I understand the anger, and I was sickened by Hamas's terroristic acts. But an attack on the Palestine people in Gaza is exactly what Hamas wants.

I know it's going to be hard, but Isreal's retaliation should be to strike at Hamas. Frankly, the UN should strike at Hamas. But not with bombs on Gaza.... With pressure on Qatar and Iran and paying moderates to kidnap and kill these folks off.


Hamas is a stain on Palestine. Erase it. Not the Palestinians.
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Its horrific, but how do you propose that they strike at Hammas ? They are camouflaged between the civilians they ' care for ' and in tunnels
 
Tim of the Oak said:
I haven’t got all the answers. I agree they the main blockers are religion. The Oslo Accords might have been implemented in a meaningful way had there been clarity about ending Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory. There was also great unease about access to holy sights.

Americans tend consider themselves Irish if they’ve got an 8th or 16th Irish blood. I’m British with a quarter Irish blood. Meyer Lansky arranged substantial donations from the US towards Israeli Weaponry because he was Jewish.

It’s obvious that the barbaric Hamas attribute their havoc to a religious mandate (whether it is or or is t a corruption of their religion).

An all Irish force could have been a better way of peace keeping during the troubles. The Arabs would be mad to accept say a UN peacekeeping force for Gaza given the massacre of Muslims at Srebrenica. The Israelis probably wouldn’t allow it anyway.

I don’t think a British public opinion ever called for a military assault across the Irish Sea like we will see in Gaza. There was also never an instance of 1,200 civilians being massacred in a weekend. I doubt anybody of a sane mind believed such an adult would solve the conflict.

Didn’t the IRA kills more people in their own communities than British soldiers or I might be wrong. Dealing with the equally ruthless Protestant terrorists would have added complexity too.

The main protagonists in Ireland also had profitable careers in reserve like drugs dealing, politics and arms dealing. I’ve no idea what the alternative career paths would be in the Middle East.
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No, I get all of what you are saying and as I’ve said, my post is as much about me trying to get my head around the similarities. But I can see the dissimilarities too.

I said in a previous post that I find myself biting my tongue about some of the opinions posted, not so much because I disagree with the substantive points being made but the analysis or rationale being offered to what is an acceptable retaliatory response just doesn’t seem in keeping with comparative atrocities through our own domestic histories.

I’m conscious not to bring this back to Irish history continually. It is after all a thread about Israel/Palestine and deserves the respect not to be side tracked.

But I think we ignore lessons learned from the past at our peril.

Just a small example from your response to me regarding no similar numbers of casualties in any one terrorist action in Irish/British history that would have prompted a response similar to the Israeli response now.

I fully accept your point.
But with a population of over 2 million in Gaza who are basically going to be cut off from power and clean water and will be put at risk of starvation, due to what could be considered wilful inaction by Israel and the wider world if we stand by and let it happen.
Could you not draw a comparison to what the British government wilfully allowed happen in Ireland in the 1840s. From a population of roughly 9 million, after the famine the population was reduced by approximately 2 million through starvation and emigration. This was allowed happen through policy and let’s not forget these were British subjects at the time. Grain farmers were exporting grain out of the country to England.
Ulster and Leinster where most British support lay were least affected.

Listen it’s history and I’m not raking this up for any other reason other than to show the lessons from past such actions or inactions.

The resentment of Britain from allowing people starve lasted at least a century and a half and you could argue that some quarters still haven’t let it go.

How can anyone think it is a good idea to let innocent people starve in Gaza.
I don’t see that as punishing Hamas.
 
Ohrodneyrodney said:
Yes, its a great argument isn't it? "They didn't behead them they only shot them, the reports were false, just propaganda".
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I didn’t see much on here about it but the challenge I saw around it elsewhere was more how that got reported on quickly and widely before being verified.
 
“Israel has the right, indeed the obligation, to defend itself and to ensure that this never happens again,”

“But how Israel does this matters. We democracies distinguish ourselves from terrorists by striving for a different standard . . . That’s why it’s so important to take every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians.”

Wise words from Anthony Blinken today.

I hope persuasive pressure is being put on Isreal by the US to behave accordingly.
 
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