Middle East Conflict

[KS55]

Forgive me if I missed the point, but that misses off the Roman Empire's Arabian provinces, and their province of Syria Palestine (essentially what had been Judea until the Jewish Bar Kokhba revolt). It's pointless trying to tie ancient occupation of land to modern ideas of an "official state", but the region's been known as Palestine for the best part of two millennia (and the origin of the name goes back a lot further than that). I think the first recorded Christian reference is to "The Martyrs of Palestine" in the 3rd century. Of course it's been a "land of Arabians" if Arabs lived there - including under an Islamic empire (caliphate).

While most of that post is historically accurate, the argument that it purports to support is fallacious. It boils down to: “You were treated like shit by the Ottomans because it wasn’t really your land-so it’s ok for us to do the same.”

 

[halfcenturyup]

1.1m people told to move from the North. I wonder if their land will be given back after its bombed to bits.

It is, of course, impossible to move 1.2 million people 15 miles in 24 hours when they don't have food, water or fuel, anyway. Not even considering the old, infirm, pregnant and the rest. Especially as the warning came before midnight amongst a population with no electricity and under constant bombardment.

I am guessing the visiting Americans had a word, so this is a bit of lip service. Otherwise, they could have said the same on Monday and given 96 hours.

 

[Paul1970]

It makes you wonder whether there is any point at which the west tries to rein in Israel as a term for any support. From what I can gather they have the ok from Biden to smash up who they want. Seem to be immune to condemnation. Hate all killing but find Bidens goody and baddy stuff rather ridiculous. Nothing against Jewish people in general have played in teams with hilarious ones and lovely family people but not keen on the killing stuff. As I've got older and found any good health is a bonus to enjoy I just find it tragic the number of young lives being lost around the place needlessly.

No chance mate America have given them the green light to slaughter thousands and the uk will sit back . Very dangerous situation and can only assume that the Arab world will act on this

 

[Paul1970]

1.1m people told to move from the North. I wonder if their land will be given back after its bombed to bits.

Doubt it

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

In all this chaos of making people move South, does that not give Hamas an opportunity to move within the cover of these refugees without being spotted? They won’t stay in Gaza city to meet a grizzly end in the rubble of an Israeli air strike.

 

[cucumberman]

 

[Deleted member 10327]

I’m not completely sure, I think he’s referring to Netanyahu, and if so he’s completely got a point.

For some, it‘s easy ordering the death of others from the comfort of your chateau.

But didn’t Netanyahu serve in the Israeli SF. Plus his Brother was killed in the Entebbe raid in the 70’s while rescuing the hostages there.
So he’s been there himself.

 

[Ducado]

Can I just make a point about Palestinian ethnicity, whilst it’s true they are classed as Arab, it’s likely the majority are descended from ancient populations of the area and some have speculated that there may be a sizeable portion of Jewish descent, it’s known that not all Jews left at the dispora, plus there other peoples in the area as well (interesting fact the people of the Galilee were converts to Judaism ( long before Jesus) Islam converted by the sword in those days, the only truely Arabian countries are in the gulf region, the rest are descendants from the original conquest with some Arab blood

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The Israelis seem to be claiming that targets are intelligence-led (or was just someone on Bluemoon...) but that's presumably the same intelligence sources that didn't know about what Hamas was planning,

Entire neighbourhoods have been reduced to rubble. Some of the coverage is showing something akin to Deansgate being destroyed because terrorists were reported to be hiding in Sinclair’s Oyster Bar.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I have since amended my post (q v.) to make it clearer what I meant. If Israel calls itself the only democracy in the middle east (a very dubious claim) it should adhere to democratic standards. Blowing up whole buildings, for example, because one tenant out of several hundred residents was a terrorist is collective punishment and a war crime. The idea that it is just bad luck for the innocent bystanders, if that is what the poster had in mind, is just wrong.
tbf, the meaning of the post I referred to was not completely clear.

It wasn’t, no, but I guess that warrants the benefit of the doubt?

 

[cucumberman]

What’s your take

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

But didn’t Netanyahu serve in the Israeli SF. Plus his Brother was killed in the Entebbe raid in the 70’s while rescuing the hostages there.
So he’s been there himself.

Over half a century ago.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Several Jewish schools in the UK are closing out of security concerns.

That’s right - kiddies in England are terrified for their safety because of these peace loving left wing hippy protesters who just want “freedom for Palestine” and are in no way hate fuelled violent anti-semites.

When some racist thugs desecrate a mosque the nation is outraged and there’s a pouring of sympathy - and rightly so.

Ordinary Jews in this country, let alone aboard has been living with increasing anxiety and fear for years now due to the rise in far left antisemitism and hardly anyone gives a fuck.

I suggest people read David Baddiel’s Jews Don’t Count and listen to the last couple of episodes of the News Agents podcast with Jon Sopel and Emily Maitlis for a bit of an eye opener on how ordinary Jewish (or as Baddiel says, Jew…ish) people feel.

 

[The blue phantom]

Tbf the US Secretary of State has warned Israel that indiscriminate killing is beyond the pale. It will, however, be glossed over.

It's gone way beyond over the pale now. It's a fuckin Massacre and War Crimes with that Twat Schapps or whatever is New name is sending Ships there to defend Israel.

 

[Ithryn Luin]

Strange that of all the horrific acts that have been confirmed in the past week it's unconfirmed reports and therefore potential propaganda that seems to be getting banded about as a reason to take a side.

Absolute fucking bullshit! There are plenty of confirmed reports from multiple sources and awful videos posted by Hammas themselves. Propaganda my arse!

 

[The blue phantom]

1.1m people told to move from the North. I wonder if their land will be given back after its bombed to bits.

There'll be no one to give it back to once the Genocide is complete.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Their army don't "take land" though, they go into it, achieve their objective, and return to the previous positions. They've done that many times.

Many on this thread don't understand hamas, they are within the general population (many probably related to ordinary Gazans), so "wiping them off the face of the earth" is a very difficult objective.

They are also in underground bunkers, I assume the IDF know where these are, and are going after them, sadly civilians are on the ground above those bunkers. Israel has warned about the areas at risk, but there is pretty much nowhere for the civilians to go to get away from them, other than schools and hospitals, and I'm sure hamas use those for protection.

However you look at it, it's a horrible shitshow, that hamas wanted.

I’m talking about since the late 1940s. Since Israel was founded, they were invaded and attacked and in winning battles against the attackers they took land they’d made advancements on in battle.

It’s been a never-ending two-and-fro since.

 

[Ducado]

Several Jewish schools in the UK are closing out of security concerns.

That’s right - kiddies in England are terrified for their safety because of these peace loving left wing hippy protesters who just want “freedom for Palestine” and are in no way hate fuelled violent anti-semites.

When some racist thugs desecrate a mosque the nation is outraged and there’s a pouring of sympathy - and rightly so.

Ordinary Jews in this country, let alone aboard has been living with increasing anxiety and fear for years now due to the rise in far left antisemitism and hardly anyone gives a fuck.

I suggest people read David Baddiel’s Jews Don’t Count and listen to the last couple of episodes of the News Agents podcast with Jon Sopel and Emily Maitlis for a bit of an eye opener on how ordinary Jewish (or as Baddiel says, Jew…ish) people feel.

Its an absolute disgrace, but it’s a symptom of this polarisation we have seen the world over, in fact you don’t have look far it’s very evident on this forum

People getting into one camp or another and refusing to even consider the other camps perspective or in extreme forms the other camps right to exist

It’s almost like there has been a vacuum left by the decline of traditional tribal politics and religion and people are desperate to belong and blame the other for there problems, perhaps it was ever thus

 

[The blue phantom]

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Every drop of civilian blood is on Hamas. This is their doing.

Aye, conflict in the middle east is extremely simple and without any nuance.