Middle East Conflict

The blue phantom said:
I think they just want freedom tbh.
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Good for them and I hope there's a resolution that facilitates this. However, having groups represent you that want to see every member of a certain race wiped off the face of the earth isn't the way I'm afraid.
 
BringBackSwales said:
He said the uk would provide TEN MILLION POUNDS IN AID TO PALESTINIANS. Derisory and about as much as one of Mrs Sunaks tax residency dodges
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$Billions of aid has gone in over the years and it either paid for arms or ended up in the bank accounts of the Hamas leadership who are all billionaires living the life in Qatar or Turkey.

Whose fault is that
 
Bluemoon_420 said:
Bravo Matt Carthy:

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I have extensively researched this matter. Hard to find some conclusion to be honest. In truth I would be pro-Palestinian, other than their recent actions. The UN have have passed many bits of legislation which the Israeli's disagree with as non legally binding.Various Charters and Resolutions could be argued. What I found interesting was the fact some Israeli's refer to the League of Nations 1922 resolution, universally accepted as law, as their basis for a right to all the land. The subsequent wars and discussions are open to debate.
So you can take a legal ground or a moral ground. The moral ground personally is that Palestinians have been treated abysmally.The last elections which voted Hamas into power was 2006.Nil since.I do wonder if people in Gaza feel the same now as 2006.Probably do, as they have been treated like dirt. Water, power,ports all controlled by Israel. It then becomes hard not support the radicals. I see no answer in the short term. Frankly they seem as bad as each other.The one obvious answer which I read recently,which Israel will never accept is to stop these borders,of Gaza and the West Bank.Be one nation and allow voting under some neutral party,UN?? Live together in peace democratically.
 
kaz7 said:
Are we offering to take palestine people in like we did ukranians ? If not why not
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Are we offering to take in Israeli Jews that have had enough as well? If not why not? Israel faces a demographic crisis. I'm not opposed to hearing arguments why we would couldn't or shouldn't offer some sort of path to citizenship for both Palestinians and Jews who have had it with the never-ending conflict. I don't know, I just hate seeing what we are seeing. I have no ideas how to solve this mess but both sides seem to want to pose an existential threat to the other.

Anyway, here is a very interesting article from earlier in the year from the New Yorker talking about Netanyahu and fractures in Israeli Jewish society.

www.newyorker.com

What Israel’s Crisis Reveals About Its Democratic Compromises

Amid widespread protests, the Prime Minister has halted a package of illiberal reforms. What are the roots of his effort—and of its rejection?
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
 
Vic said:
Have fun finding anything in the Qur'an that gives Muslims a promise to the land. The Palestinians (Muslim and Christian) just happened to have been there a long time when Zionists started moving there. It was indeed Britain that made promises to both groups.
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Another one peddling the myth that all the "Zionists" (I think you mean Jews) descended on this peaceful Arab territory and proceeded to drive them all out.

The "Zionists" were there well over a thousand years before Muhammad and Islam came into being. The destruction of the Second Temple, which was the culmination of a war between the Jews and the Romans, took place in 79AD. Islam is believed to have been founded around 600AD.

Maths and history clearly not your strong points.
 
SWP's back said:
…..regularly bombs and kills them in retaliation of Hamas atttacks and then Hamas parks the entirety of its infrastructure inside Palestinian civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals, residential buildings etc etc).

Do you think that if Hamas didn’t do that, Israel would be attacking the civilian populace?
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There is no Hamas in the West Bank.
Israel regularly kills Palestinians in the West Bank and it's not just the security forces. The settlers regularly kill Palestinians, whose murders are subsequently never investigated nor anyone charged or punished yet as soon as there is retaliation for these atrocities it becomes world news
 
woody1968 said:
Different colour skin ? We cared fuck all for the poor Syrians.
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Not true.

  • Between 2014 and June 2023, 51,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. Since 2021, 21,500 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
 
blueinsa said:
Not true.

  • Between 2014 and June 2023, 51,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. Since 2021, 21,500 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
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What's the figures for Ukrainians coming in. I'm kinda thinking a 1000% more than Syrians?
 
blueinsa said:
Not true.

  • Between 2014 and June 2023, 51,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. Since 2021, 21,500 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
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That was done by local authorities through migration partnerships, rather than the general pubic getting involved as was the case with Homes for Ukraine.
 
blueinsa said:
$Billions of aid has gone in over the years and it either paid for arms or ended up in the bank accounts of the Hamas leadership who are all billionaires living the life in Qatar or Turkey.

Whose fault is that
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If you’ve got no electricity, no water, no right to a proper economy and your buildings are getting bombed to fuck what chance of prosperity have you got? Fucking none
 
blueinsa said:
Not true.

  • Between 2014 and June 2023, 51,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. Since 2021, 21,500 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
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I suspect more people with brown or black skin have been given asylum than Ukrainians, it's a stupid argument to posit.
 
St.Pauli support said:
More and more this conflict is brought to our homelands.
Germany nowadays has declared Israel's security and existence as our basic national interest ('Staats-raison')! We are discussing what that means and it goes as far as full support, also military. But it also involves that Israel has to act in a responsible way to find a peaceful solution without risking their own security. It's not a card blanche.

In that debate, Islamist antisemitism is being targeted as a fundamental problem in Germany. We have a very special responsibility but have also nearly 6m Muslims, sadly not integrated to our communities the way they should be but often living in their own world, partly even under their own laws (accepting Sharia alone!).
Difficult times ahead, in many western societies, as I still expect IDF to further fight Hamas in Gaza, especially the tunnel system. All that will be difficult to handle in our homelands.

But as you say, we have to break the extremists' plans. Fighting terrorism in a smart way, with loads of diplomatic efforts in all directions, deescalating where we can. Media have a huge responsibility as well not jumping on any quick head line without any fact check. All that sounds near impossible, but we can just try the best. The alternative would be an extremist and unfree world.
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For many years peace in NI looked impossible. This is an even greater challenge and it needs good faith from the west and arab world and massive diplomatic effort. The disarming of Hamas and Hezbollah by a 3rd party without massive loss of life seems impossible but I think it’s the only way forward. As you say, what is the alternative.
 
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