What has the UK become under the far right influence?

[bluethrunthru]

There is a problem in the West in general, we have highest standard of living and people want to have the same, the economic disparity is huge, most of the world don’t have access to a telephone line or indoor plumbing, we have more food than we know what to do with, and live lives of comfort

Do we build ever bigger walls ? Or do we really start to tackle the problems, I suspect that we will go for bigger walls as it’s the easiest option

partially right - we have massive use of food banks record number of kids in absolute poverty - the people seeking to come here aspire to the top 10% but will be in the bottom 10% if they are lucky

 

[TinFoilHat]

My perception of what the uk has become is that failure has become monitised and theres no consequences to the actions of others.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

There is a problem in the West in general, we have highest standard of living and people want to have the same, the economic disparity is huge, most of the world don’t have access to a telephone line or indoor plumbing, we have more food than we know what to do with, and live lives of comfort

Do we build ever bigger walls ? Or do we really start to tackle the problems, I suspect that we will go for bigger walls as it’s the easiest option

Western superpowers should have been investing and helping developing nations improve their living standards decades ago. We've just become to self interested and not bothered, now we are facing issue where more and more people are trying to migrate.

This issue is going to be turned up about 30 notches as climate change continues to make living coniditons in a lot of countries worse over the coming decades.

 

[BobKowalski]

There is a problem in the West in general, we have highest standard of living and people want to have the same, the economic disparity is huge, most of the world don’t have access to a telephone line or indoor plumbing, we have more food than we know what to do with, and live lives of comfort

Do we build ever bigger walls ? Or do we really start to tackle the problems, I suspect that we will go for bigger walls as it’s the easiest option

Bigger walls won’t work especially as nations like ourselves needs more people.

Europe needs more labour - labour flows in - European politicians impale themselves on anti-migrant rhetoric and promises - labour keeps flowing inward - people vote for even more unrealistic promises on migration - repeat.

No one is remotely honest about our economy or what it requires and we become increasingly unhinged. Our entire political discourse is a slow descent into madness because we can no longer accept the truth.

 

[Ducado]

Bigger walls won’t work especially as nations like ourselves needs more people.

Europe needs more labour - labour flows in - European politicians impale themselves on anti-migrant rhetoric and promises - labour keeps flowing inward - people vote for even more unrealistic promises on migration - repeat.

No one is remotely honest about our economy or what it requires and we become increasingly unhinged. Our entire political discourse is a slow descent into madness because we can no longer accept the truth.

And part of that truth is we can't live the lives we lead without lots of cheap labour to do the jobs we don't want to do, and it was ever thus, migrants always start at the bottom and do the crap jobs, settle have families who aspire to a better life and the circle continues, I find it interesting that some of the loudest voices against migration come from the children of people who have migrated here talk about pulling the ladder up

 

[Chippy_boy]

So today on radio phone ins I have heard people advocating that

a/ we need to stop supporting Ukraine as we can't afford to

b/ why should we help earthquake victims in Turkey and especially Syria - we can't afford to

There are so many shit stains in the gusset of the UK's underpants right now

What really fucks me off is the vast numbers of people who advocate more government spending and more taxes to pay for it, just so long as THEY don't have to pay more themselves. Too many people have become greedy, self-centred twats IMO.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What really fucks me off is the vast numbers of people who advocate more government spending and more taxes to pay for it, just so long as THEY don't have to pay more themselves. Too many people have become greedy, self-centred twats IMO.

Are they more likely to live in council houses or Mcmansions?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

What really fucks me off is the vast numbers of people who advocate more government spending and more taxes to pay for it, just so long as THEY don't have to pay more themselves. Too many people have become greedy, self-centred twats IMO.

That’s why they should be taxed more. ;-)

 

[Summerbuzz]

People mugging themselves off. Yeah yeah, life is unfair, you're brilliant and perfect - it's them! I can't stand THEM.

Seriously, we all go through unhappiness and yep, life is unfair and often very harsh. False pride is a psychological defence to that - I'm sure I'm better than that.. then the doubts creep in, because you're not much better, if at all - you're just another human, and I reckon 90% of humans work out about as useful and honest as each other - enough to keep the body mind and retain the benefits of your social situation... sometimes a little more, often a little less. The other 10% are in jail or running mega-corps (honest truth, that's how it goes for people who don't care, it's an advantage in business).

Right, so now you're hurt by life, your defence isn't amazing, because people treat you as they always have done, they expect you to take the piss, be unreliable, be a bit selfish, have a laugh about it. They are basically telling you - you are the same as them, no better. You can't go around thinking you are. So you need something else for a defence. The next step is to say - it's "them". Not the ones you are close to. But the ones who aren't.

That's normal human nature. So bloody obvious. You've mugged yourself.

Look - the cause of the unhappiness is, life was unfair and harsh and disappointing. What's the eventual answer? Insisting that it's right to increase the sum total of misery, by picking on another group. Goodness sakes. No.

The answer is to own it. You are going through what everyone else goes through from time to time. Look after yourself, and try to use it to make something better for you and yours - rather than blame other groups.

Point is, I doubt you can get very close to the truth about how to best use yourself, your vote, and your voice, if you keep rubbing that sore spot. It will never get better. You'll just remind yourself how miserable it is. Even when you see it happening to another, it's still a reminder, that this whole thing can be really horrible. It doesn't work for people. Occassionally, yep. But mostly, no. Because you are making your own reality darker. Therapists know this, psychologists etc. Loads of people know this. We wildly over estimate what punishment or anything like that actually achieves. You can't escape it, because it's part of being a human. And justice must be seen to be done, and everyone's idea of justice is pretty unreliable. Which, when it comes down on us, is when life feels unfair and cold and shit.

Don't go round in that circle. If you were lucky, you'd have the example of people who were fair for the sake of it. People who were happy and who would escape this burden of depression and resentment, without alcohol or drugs.
If you were lucky, they were your parents, uncles.

The amount of people who aren't that lucky, is massive. But you can give it a try. See it as a bit of a spiral, try something else.

I say people knew this. My dad knew this. My mum sort of as well. They had their problems tho, oh boy. But they weren't mugs.

They demanded something for their money.

That's the problem with the negative sort of "this group up, that group bad" politics. It's a massive open goal for sketchy sketchy fuckers like Boris to take your hopes, fuck around, and enrich himself and other like minded people.

Dad says. There's one born every minute. Trump, Boris, the other chancers say - There's one born every minute.

Dad says. Don't be one - it's a sad life. However bad the alternative, that's worse. Learn from it.

Trump / Boris say. They're desperate, lol. Time to take their votes, and clean out their wallets.

Here's how to deal with sales people and politicians. Stop listening to the honeyed words. Demand things materially of benefit to you. Demand respect for your better judgement. And demand the money is not wasted. Don't be taken for a fool. Because politics so often, about nothing but money.

Don't. Mug. Yourselves. Brexit was a warning. Onlookers said, justice must be done. They felt sympathy for the aggrieved Brexit voters. Ok. Many reasonable people agreed with them.

But you see what it actually means. They. Are. Not. Happier. Things are worse. Do them a favour. Stop it from happening again. For yourself. They won't thank you for it. Because humans just are that way. Sympathy for a miserable depressive, fine... does that mean you let them drink themselves into oblivion, wallow in their own tears? No.

And that ties with the central point. Look. After. Yourself. Vote in your own interests. Get a good deal. That's what all this is. Deals. Deals for money and deals for stuff and deals for services. Get the right deal - and don't fall for the con-men who flatter the colour of your skin, your pride in your background, and say they'll unlock your dreams. Dreams are not real. Look around you. This is money, commerce. Trading. That's what never changes. Don't ever let yourself be confused that there is much else on offer.

What's better. A slightly better deal in reality? Or a pipe dream you can smoke when they move the loot out the back door.

And finally. Be positive. You will not get into the right state of mind throwing negativity, accusation, threats around. Ever. This is a hard life, sometimes.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Are they more likely to live in council houses or Mcmansions?

Council houses. Although the sentiment spans all demographics.

 

[Chippy_boy]

That’s why they should be taxed more. ;-)

I'm all for fair taxes. And that means people on £40k, £50k, £60k paying more as well as people on £100k, £200k, £1m.

What sticks in my craw is people on middle incomes who seem to think that "the rich" should bear all the additional burden. And I say that as someone on middle income! Our basic rate of tax is IMO too low. Our VAT rates are too high. Our personal allowances are too low. No-one on £15k to £20k a year should be paying any tax at all - that's ludicrous. But the starting rate should be more like 25% IMO. We could throw a vast amount of money at the NHS and public services if we upped the basic rate by a few pence.

 

[Berts Neck]

I will give you my thoughts on the UK as a product of parents who came to the country after WW2 from Poland. In general it is a most welcoming place to live. A great country. My parents and family came with nothing and through absolutely sheer hard work and self sacrifice gave my sister and I a good upbringing and education.
We integrated into society. They asked for nothing and got nothing. So I became a GP. Worked mostly in Kent. Kent bore the brunt of the cross channel crossings. I met many people who came to work and better themselves. Yes, indeed they have the crappest jobs.But the kindest people you could meet. There was a group of people who days after landing on our shores came to see me with an interpreter. They had been given accommodation when locally it was impossible for people to get the same level of care. Young men mostly demanding total body MRI's, blood tests. I would explain that unless they were sick, I could not do it, and the interpreter would stare at me in total disbelief, I was cruel. This sense of entitlement fostered a complete resentment locally as there seemed to be a two tier system for local people and people who had just come to the country. I still hear it every day with workmen who visit the house(In Congleton now).I really feel these individuals are a minority.
I feel that we are one of the most accepting and multi-cultural nations in the West. There are elements who have no intention to work, not to mention the politically/religious motivated immigrants. Embrace people, try not to judge, and be proud of what we have achieved. Not perfect, but far better than most.

 

[threespires]

I thought this report was interesting. Basically we've become a place where the desire and abilty of the few to both hoard and acquire wealth has hamstrung our economy to the point we are falling behind our once peers.

Equality Trust Releases Cost of Inequality Report | The Equality Trust

Over the last few decades, the UK's inequality has increased rapidly. We're all familiar with the headlines – record profits and CEO pay, billionaire wealth spiralling out of control, luxury developments in our cities. In 2023, the UK’s 171 billionaires now hold as much wealth as over 40 million...

equalitytrust.org.uk

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Too busy gammoning about migrants than actually getting on with the job of running the country.

That dead cat is really beginning to rot.

 

[inbetween]

I'm all for fair taxes. And that means people on £40k, £50k, £60k paying more as well as people on £100k, £200k, £1m.

What sticks in my craw is people on middle incomes who seem to think that "the rich" should bear all the additional burden. And I say that as someone on middle income! Our basic rate of tax is IMO too low. Our VAT rates are too high. Our personal allowances are too low. No-one on £15k to £20k a year should be paying any tax at all - that's ludicrous. But the starting rate should be more like 25% IMO. We could through a vast amount of money at the NHS and public services if we upped the basic rate by a few pence.

Ask somebody on £20k how much they need to be comfortable and they'd probably say £50k. Ask someone on £50k how much they need to be comfortable and they'd say £100k. That number will keep increasing until infinity. Paying tax just means your money is taken and the perception is you're 'less' comfortable so of course nobody wants to pay it.

This is the result of a growth led economy. I think we'd have a much richer society if we decoupled from growth and tried to conserve what we have and make it better. If not then we're all chasing unachievable goals. You can tax the rich more/less or tax the poor more/less, none of it really matters because changing the ratio between taxation and spending will not solve any of the problems that we face.

We need to have an honest conversation about growth. Successive governments have worked to prioritise growth at all costs. Why do we need growth though? The leading evidence on issues such as mental health prove that the growth of material wealth for example is meaningless beyond a certain bar and that bar is set a lot lower than you'd think.

The current situation is rapidly becoming unsustainable because we can barely sustain ourselves in our own situations, the cost of living crisis proved how fragile we are. You then have problems like climate change which are impossible to solve because we're outgrowing and exponentially contributing more to the problem.

 

[BrianW]

A no-growth economy might work, but it would need a total reset of attitudes which I think (highly) unlikely.

The current alleged paradigm - note, I say 'alleged' - is that if you 'work hard' you will be rewarded with a better standard of living and all the toys you want.

This is not sustainable in a no-growth economy. Such an economy would need to start with a belief that each individual must have the basics - a home, food, and healthcare. What was left would then be shared in some way. It might be linked to 'hard work' whether past or current, but it would have to be capped because the sort of rewards where you end up with a manor house and three Bentleys could not be afforded. You would also need to provide essential services such as education and public transport, all of which would need to be affordable to the poorest.

Such a society sounds remarkably like a form of socialism. Or at least like the post-war consensus, under which high earners were heavily taxed and there was not an immense gap between rich and poor.

To deliver this politically, with the Daily Mail and its ilk against you - good luck!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Ask somebody on £20k how much they need to be comfortable and they'd probably say £50k. Ask someone on £50k how much they need to be comfortable and they'd say £100k. That number will keep increasing until infinity. Paying tax just means your money is taken and the perception is you're 'less' comfortable so of course nobody wants to pay it.

This is the result of a growth led economy. I think we'd have a much richer society if we decoupled from growth and tried to conserve what we have and make it better. If not then we're all chasing unachievable goals. You can tax the rich more/less or tax the poor more/less, none of it really matters because changing the ratio between taxation and spending will not solve any of the problems that we face.

We need to have an honest conversation about growth. Successive governments have worked to prioritise growth at all costs. Why do we need growth though? The leading evidence on issues such as mental health prove that the growth of material wealth for example is meaningless beyond a certain bar and that bar is set a lot lower than you'd think.

The current situation is rapidly becoming unsustainable because we can barely sustain ourselves in our own situations, the cost of living crisis proved how fragile we are. You then have problems like climate change which are impossible to solve because we're outgrowing and exponentially contributing more to the problem.

Wow. that's a big topic and probably something that deserves serious consideration in the 22nd century (seriously, I am not joking).

Unfortunately the entire world in the 21st century is driven by growth. It's a flawed system in many ways I agree. It's what makes TGI Fridays shite when once it was great. Start out with £12 for the most magnificent 10oz New York Strip steak you've had in the UK and after 26 "improvements" in order to increase profits its a shoddy bit of shoe leather for £21.50 that you wouldn't give to your cat. In a place that needs condemning.

So much for capitalism. But as I say, a debate for 80 years time not now. Whilst the world is stuck on this treadmill, we cannot get off it or we'd be impoverished forever.

 

[inbetween]

Wow. that's a big topic and probably something that deserves serious consideration in the 22nd century (seriously, I am not joking).

Unfortunately the entire world in the 21st century is driven by growth. It's a flawed system in many ways I agree. It's what makes TGI Fridays shite when once it was great. Start out with £12 for the most magnificent 10oz New York Strip steak you've had in the UK and after 26 "improvements" in order to increase profits its a shoddy bit of shoe leather for £21.50 that you wouldn't give to your cat. In a place that needs condemning.

So much for capitalism. But as I say, a debate for 80 years time not now. Whilst the world is stuck on this treadmill, we cannot get off it or we'd be impoverished forever.

The weird thing is that growth is a very new concept for humans. Humans existed without growth for thousands of years, that growth only became exponential in the last century or two. It has brought incredible advances and an obviously huge increase in living standards but the disadvantages are slowly creeping upon us.

Look at the events of the last 4 years. It only took a war in Ukraine and the aftershock from that to bring our gas supply to its knees. We previously could get gas just offshore but that gas is no longer viable and there isn't enough of it to satisfy demand. You'd of said 4 years ago how the hell can a country in the 21st century not cope with a pandemic caused by a disease that kills less than 0.1% of people? But we didn't cope.

Some of the biggest problems that we will come to face as a society and economy whether that's food security, energy or climate are coming to exist purely because of the right hand side of the graph below. It's very tin foil hat I agree and I have no idea what the solution is but at the moment it seems we have to continue and rather hope that it will be fine. Gladly I'll be dead by then but christ knows what the future looks like.

 

[mexico1970]

The weird thing is that growth is a very new concept for humans. Humans existed without growth for thousands of years, that growth only became exponential in the last century or two. It has brought incredible advances and an obviously huge increase in living standards but the disadvantages are slowly creeping upon us.

Look at the events of the last 4 years. It only took a war in Ukraine and the aftershock from that to bring our gas supply to its knees. We previously could get gas just offshore but that gas is no longer viable and there isn't enough of it to satisfy demand. You'd of said 4 years ago how the hell can a country in the 21st century not cope with a pandemic caused by a disease that kills less than 0.1% of people? But we didn't cope.

Some of the biggest problems that we will come to face as a society and economy whether that's food security, energy or climate are coming to exist purely because of the right hand side of the graph below. It's very tin foil hat I agree and I have no idea what the solution is but at the moment it seems we have to continue and rather hope that it will be fine. Gladly I'll be dead by then but christ knows what the future looks like.

We are a virus that is slowly but surely killing its host, there is no antidote for human selfishness and greed.

It'll all be down to the last man standing, coughing and spluttering his/her/their way into an early grave and blaming somebody else for it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The weird thing is that growth is a very new concept for humans. Humans existed without growth for thousands of years, that growth only became exponential in the last century or two. It has brought incredible advances and an obviously huge increase in living standards but the disadvantages are slowly creeping upon us.

Look at the events of the last 4 years. It only took a war in Ukraine and the aftershock from that to bring our gas supply to its knees. We previously could get gas just offshore but that gas is no longer viable and there isn't enough of it to satisfy demand. You'd of said 4 years ago how the hell can a country in the 21st century not cope with a pandemic caused by a disease that kills less than 0.1% of people? But we didn't cope.

Some of the biggest problems that we will come to face as a society and economy whether that's food security, energy or climate are coming to exist purely because of the right hand side of the graph below. It's very tin foil hat I agree and I have no idea what the solution is but at the moment it seems we have to continue and rather hope that it will be fine. Gladly I'll be dead by then but christ knows what the future looks like.

I wouldn't exactly say you can "relax" but world population is only growing so rapidly because it's cultural to have like 10 kids in some countries (e.g. half of Africa) because historically, half of them died before they are 5 and half of the rest before they were 30.

As standards of living, nutrition, heathcare and life expectancy increase, so does the need to have 10 kids. We've seen huge reductions in birth rates in various countries as these changes come about.

And on that basis, it is expected that the world population will peak at around 11bn. Feeding that many people is not exactly a walk in the park, but with modern farming methods and new technologies like synthetic protein-based "meat", then it is sustainable.