PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[give it to gordon]

I keep thinking I am going to come to this thread and the story to be that the pl have dropped all charges lol

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

The emails prove absolutely nothing. They are proposals and outlines.
The proof and evidence of what happened is in the accounts of City and their sponsors. In receivables and expenses ledgers of either party filed at the time and comprising documentation submitted at CAS with added testimony from financial directors from both these parties.
The PL is going to need some pretty persuasive evidence to counter that and I'd go as far as to say I doubt such evidence exists or has ever existed.
I'm afraid "liar, liar, pants on fire" isn't going to cut it.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Anyone else finding that you can't get more than four or five sentences into a conversation about City's charges before the other party exposes that they don't have a clue what they're on about?

That post earlier about us being in a 'post-truth society' really hits home. They've seen some bloke on Twitter say that 'City only got off on a technicality last time' and they all believe it.

Caught talkshite this morning and they were saying we only "got off" at CAS due to time barring. They aren't serious journalists. No-one is interested in the truth anymore. It's quite sad really

I've even had rags suggest to me, without apparent irony, that any club found breaching FFP in any way should be immediately relegated!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Ours is not a P&S case, so this timeframe doesn't apply to us anyway.

Edit....and can you imagine trying to push our complex case through in 12 weeks? Ha ha....bloody hell.

Is it really that complex though? It seems that they are asserting fraud. If they can't assert that, which you would hope they have some real tangible evidence of/witnesses to testify about, then the rest collapses

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

Can anyone she'd some light on these emails that supposedly prove we did wrong, I've heard that gobby scouser from the Anfield Agenda and the rag from TFT on You Tube saying they have seen the emails which prove we did wrong, anyone know what they are.

If that’s all they’ve got, then we’ve got absolutely nothing whatsoever to worry about.

An email can’t conclusively prove financial irregularities if the arrangements they reference are not supported by our Accounts.

The irregularities we’re being accused of can only be conclusively proven by evidence contained in our Accounts and documented financial transactions.

A statement in an email which isn’t supported by the irrefutable proof of our accounts can be instantly dismissed as nothing more than that - a statement in an email.

I hope these two fucking idiots you’re referring to are right, as if that’s what the PL are basing their case on - we’re in the clear!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Off topic but the NHS computer system is far from standard, and it mostly works. Not really sure what you mean by weeding out "admin constraints" using AI.

Even more off topic but (i) there is no such thing as "the NHS" (it is a conglomerate of 20000+ different organisations) and (ii) there are multiple IT products used by those providers (Cerner, EMIS, System 1, etc, etc) between which some sort of interoperability is possible (using things like SNOMED coding, etc)

 

[bluetonium]

Just had a news article pop up, either from team talk or talksport (I confess I swiped it away as soon as it popped up). I did catch the headline though 'Man City Points Deduction'

Firstly, I'm now positive AI is writing the majority of online articles, mashing trending keywords together into headlines to get clicks.

Second, it just goes to show the complete ignorance and lack of understanding of our case by many. I mean, if we are found guilty, a points deduction is the least of our worries. I just don't see that they grasp the severity of the allegations, nor the body of evidence required to prove such.

Let alone the implications for the premier league if they lose the case, which is a very real possibility given uefa were laughed out by cas and the only 'evidence' against us seems to be the salty tears of our rivals and a bunch of emails copied and pasted together by a now convicted criminal extortionist. Who was he going to, or did he, sell his work to by the way? Wonder if that'd show up in someone else's accounts or was it strictly off the books....

 

[Silva2021]

They have sympathy for Everton because they are not a threat to them in footballing terms.

But surely that is the tactic.

City fans have always argued it creates a glass ceiling.

But us saying this whilst winning everything, does not really make the point.

This demonstrates it, spent less then multiple PL clubs and now have a 10 point deduction (how do they compete)!

For me, these are the kind of stories that we should be planting in the media.

 

[True_Blue69]

Caught talkshite this morning and they were saying we only "got off" at CAS due to time barring. They aren't serious journalists. No-one is interested in the truth anymore. It's quite sad really

I've even had rags suggest to me, without apparent irony, that any club found breaching FFP in any way should be immediately relegated!

Send the thick fucks this

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...deficit-under-uefas-financial-fair-play-rules

 

[give it to gordon]

If that’s all they’ve got, then we’ve got absolutely nothing whatsoever to worry about.

An email can’t conclusively prove financial irregularities if the arrangements they reference are not supported by our Accounts.

The irregularities we’re being accused of can only be conclusively proven by evidence contained in our Accounts and documented financial transactions.

A statement in an email which isn’t supported by the irrefutable proof of our accounts can be instantly dismissed as nothing more than that - a statement in an email.

I hope these two fucking idiots you’re referring to are right, as if that’s what the PL are basing their case on - we’re in the clear!

When I read posts like this it's even more bizarre the way the pl brought the charges.

By the way I believe you and believe City are 100% innocent

 

[wolviedinho]

I keep thinking I am going to come to this thread and the story to be that the pl have dropped all charges lol

I think what we will see instead is a quiet decision in a few years. Something behind closed doors. An agreement of sorts…

Let’s be honest here, the accounts are clean, the paper work from the companies in Abu Dhabi is clean. This is why it’s taking so long! If we had of broken the rules and overspent then fine. If the league has proof we fiddled the books then show us!!!!

The premier is going after evidence they can’t obtain and thus trying to create a narrative that can be interpreted to maybe cast aspiration in our direction of wrong doing or deemed unfair lol.

It’s more a petty play. We know something is not right because United and Liverpool said so, we can’t find any evidence in your books but we will just keep looking anyway and let the media twist the narrative.

I keep going back to the accounts. All the paper trails are clean. All the sponsors paid for a service rendered. How those companies decided to pay is of no consequence aslong as it was within acceptable accounting and legal practice. The der Spiegal emails may have shown a certain way city paid for a service but not illegal. Everything was balanced out before the accounts submitted.

The 115 smacks of throwing their toys out because they have no way of proving anything illegal.

 

[Chappie]

I was once so close to the pitch behind the net that Aguero blasted the ball right into my shoulder with a wayward attenpt. Lampard missed a penalty and I think Yaya and Tevez got your goals.

But surely that is the tactic.

City fans have always argued it creates a glass ceiling.

But us saying this whilst winning everything, does not really make the point.

This demonstrates it, spent less then multiple PL clubs and now have a 10 point deduction (how do they compete)!

For me, these are the kind of stories that we should be planting in the media.

They are questioning the punishment not the crime.
We are questioning the alleged crime hopefully to avoid the punishment.

 

[give it to gordon]

I think what we will see instead is a quiet decision in a few years. Something behind closed doors. An agreement of sorts…

Let’s be honest here, the accounts are clean, the paper work from the companies in Abu Dhabi is clean. This is why it’s taking so long! If we had of broken the rules and overspent then fine. If the league has proof we fiddled the books then show us!!!!

The premier is going after evidence they can’t obtain and thus trying to create a narrative that can be interpreted to maybe cast aspiration in our direction of wrong doing or deemed unfair lol.

It’s more a petty play. We know something is not right because United and Liverpool said so, we can’t find any evidence in your books but we will just keep looking anyway and let the media do the rest.

I keep going back to the accounts. All the paper trails are clean. All the sponsors paid for a service rendered. How those companies decided to pay is of no consequence aslong as it was within acceptable accounting and legal practice. The der Spiegal emails may have shown a certain way city paid for a service but not illegal. Everything was balanced out before the accounts submitted.

The 115 smacks of throwing their toys out because they have no way of proving anything illegal.

And for this I cant see City settling quietly, why should we ?

The American clubs and the pl have thrown untrue slurs. I personally would City to dish the shit about the disgusting rags and dippers !!

 

[Metalartin]

I believe its because CAS is a Swiss based court and has no jurisdiction over soley UK matters.

CAS are an international arbitration body who's purpose is to settle disputes out of court. I think it's just that the PL's rules have always been governed in accordance with English law. Except, I do remember that CAS' website states the applicable law standard can be agreed upon by both parties before it gets to the arbitration stage. If they don't do that, Swiss law is applied by default.

So CAS can use English law too, or any number of standards but most of the time it ends up being done according to Swiss law. It must be that the PL explicitly stated they want to handle their disputes different to every other league in Europe. Scared of losing control perhaps?... Smells like United and Liverpool all over.

I don't see why if enough PL clubs got together, they couldn't force through a route to CAS in the ruleset. How could the PL make an argument that taking it to a different/international body isn't fairer/less open to bias, once a decision is appealed? The way it is now, they could in theory influence everything because of their influence in the UK. This is something that should have been done many years ago in hindsight, clubs never felt the need to explore this because until now, the PL hasn't had much interest in going after clubs to this extent. In fact, it could be said, for the first 25 or so years of their existence, they sat back and cheered the big sly 3 on no matter what they did, with their thumbs up their backsides... Until someone truly threatened the red shirt dominance.

 

[johnnytapia]

So this is my theory: the PL asked for access to third parties to verify the accounting of Mancini, Etihad, Etisalat, Aabar and Fordham and we told them to fuck off, because once that door is opened they can ask anything. this would explain i) why there are 115 breaches covering everything for every year (because we haven't provided the evidence that satisfied their requests) ii), the change in the PL rules to make it compulsory to provide information from third parties (iirc), iii) the breaches of non-cooperation despite the club's protestations that they have complied with all ("lawful") requests, and iv) the reported challenge the club made on applying new rules to previous periods.

Then it all makes a modicum of sense. It also means the club just have to provide the panel our evidence, including appropriate third party evidence of our choosing, to counter the alleged breaches. Meaning the club stays in control of the cooperation process.

Just a few thoughts.

Article 7 of the ECHR:
No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Who else remembers reports that UEFA had the "smoking gun" (provided by us!) to prove us guilty of all charges? They must have mislaid it. Perhaps it was lost in the OT trophy cabinet.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Assuming we prove our innocence then this is still bad news. Proceedings start in late summer and could go on for months which is going to weigh upon our rebuilding plans going forward. How would potential signings look at this? What about present players? Only those with total belief will find us appealing but the Media outlets already are feasting on the potential of a meltdown. As the media world well knows, bad news is good news. We need an uplift, any uplift, and quick.

Username checks out.

 

[Stoned Rose]

I was ashamed of myself the other night, played soccer in City top and few of us went for a pint after and the end of the Arsenal game was on. There’s 3 old geezers, all arse fans, watching it. They must have had a few but kept staring at me with city top on, eventually the eldest who must have been in his 80’s comes over, leans in to our conversation and starts verbally assaulting us, lol, with all the usual cliches as you’ve said above. I had him in knots as he didn’t have a clue, couldn’t answer what charges were, couldn’t get his head around our fine last time being for non-cooperation and not cheating etc, but the silly old **** just wouldn’t let it go and is practically spitting on me he’s raging so much by this point. I then had to lower myself to telling him to get the fuck out of the pub and called him a wanker, hahaha.

Definitely watch your arse with those old geezers

 

[Gordyola]

I believe its because CAS is a Swiss based court and has no jurisdiction over soley UK matters.

Nothing to do with Swiss / Uk
The PL constitution doesn’t include the possibility of using CAS which is more akin to an arbitration service that all parties agree to abide by or it’s written into the rules / constitution of the sport concerned

 

[kippaxwarrior]

Not going to post it on here but Goldbridge has posted a video about the potential trial date.

It's absolutely staggering the amount of stuff he gets wrong in 10 minutes