PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[mayo31]

An interesting take that I agree with to a large extent. In any case, if exonerated it's not really in our interests to "bankrupt the PL" but I would add that if we were in possession of evidence pointing to collusion between various clubs - and Khaldoon and Pep have implied something along those lines - in an attempt to destroy us simply because they don't like the fact that we're so successful, AND those clubs knew there was no discernible proof of wrongdoing on our part then I believe we would have a genuine case to take action against those clubs. I wouldn't like to speculate on the figures involved and I know it's America rather than the UK but I can see possible parallels with the Dominion/FOX case where FOX smeared Dominion's name based on innuendo and nothing else. Of course it could be argued that it might not be in our interests to do that either as taking our competitors down a peg or three could lead to the title battle being a one-horse race for many years to come, but on the flip side if we were to just let it slide it might empower them to try and have another go at bringing us down.

I like the idea of this

Imagine if it was a one horse race and we had over 20 titles, more than anyone else.

Now i am 53 so i could look to retire on that note

 

[Cityfan1977]

I can't enlighten you as such, other than to state that what you were told sounds like one of the biggest piles of steaming shite I've ever heard in my life.

he said that the accounting for Everton and City jad the same law fitm and acounting firm I just dont understand where he heard that, Liverpool fan by the way , Lawer and Liverpool fan not the best combo

 

[abu13]

I have a slightly different take on this, I have no doubt that we have sailed very close to the wind with the regulations in place. I suspect this is common place throughout the league and business in general, I believe they have evidence that they believe may breach some of the regulations however how strong the evidence is only time will tell.

But I suspect the PL are also sick to death of the usual suspects kicking up a stink and so are quite happy to bring all these charges on us knowing that they will either stumble across something unexpected that they can pin their hat on or, that if we come out on top they can put the whole issue to bed and tell the moaning cunts that they have exhausted all options.

 

[City Mike 1969]

Law(y)er and Liverpool fan not the best combo

...it is for the brief in question with the number of claims that come out of that lot!

 

[Coatigan]

I think there are two possible plausible explanations for the PL's silence since announcing the charges.

The first is that they saw the leaks coming out of UEFA prior to CAS, they saw the way that we responded to that and they are determined either to act fairly or not make the same mistakes UEFA made (depending on your perspective).

The second is that they have not leaked any evidence because there is nothing to leak.

To my mind, this second is by some distance the more probable of the two. When you think back to the announcement of the charges, IIRC the media knew before the club did that we were being charged. We all heard the rumours - substantially true - about the punishment being visited on Everton before the independent panel revealed its findings. An organisation that leaky does not, in my view, tighten up its ship overnight. You can imagine that the source of that type of confidential information is not breaching that duty of confidence just for shits and giggles or from the goodness of their heart, but is being rewarded in some way or another for putting their position at risk in that way. So if there was some reward on offer for the mere fact that charges were imminent, imagine what would be on offer for evidence demonstrating City's guilt.

Those who have expressed an opinion based on some knowledge and professional experience have pretty unanimously expressed the view that bearing in mind the severity of the charges brought, making them stick would require significantly more evidence, and much more cogent evidence, than is in the public domain at the moment. It is certainly possible that there is substantial evidence amassed against us, which we are yet to hear of because the PL have kept a lid on it. It seems unlikely to me that this is the case. If there truly was a smoking gun, my feeling is that someone would have leaked it.

While that is not something I read into from the pack of leaks myself, I fully agree that your opinion is based on entirely reasonable logic. And that's all that you can ask for sometimes.

I would say, any leaks previously from the PL have been much closer to an official verdict/announcement. And weren't even always right, so possibly some guesswork involved by the media. I don't really remember leaks through the process or well ahead of conclusions. But it is not entirely relevant to your point.

 

[Coatigan]

Of course there is evidence just like at CAS the said evidence will be examined and cross examined, then a verdict

I was on jury service we sat and listened to the evidence, the difference between that presented by CPS and the defence was staggering. The CPS evidence, and their witnesses, did not stand up to cross examination and frankly the CPS were an embarrassment truly unbelievable that they even presented it

So, evidence yes, does it have any substance or value is the question

Pretty much the point being made here.

 

[Iassel]

can anyone enlightened me, a lawyer told me that the same law firm and account people worked for City and Everton is that true ?

Both clubs use BDO as Auditor but they’re one of the Big 4 and obviously it’s different actual auditors.

Everton and City both use Blackstone Chambers, as do the PL as they’re the go to chambers for sports law.

 

[Coatigan]

Do you know of any more evidence?

Or are you basing it on they must have something, therefore we must have done something.

You are way off.

 

[Iassel]

Do you know of any more evidence?

Or are you basing it on they must have something, therefore we must have done something.

Of course nobody on this forum knows what ‘evidence’ the PL intends to put forward.

Whilst it’s absolutely not impossible, I would guess that some people just don’t see some of the countries top minds going through several years of investigation, 2 arbitrations, 2 court cases just to re litigate the Der Speigel leaks once again. But of course it’s possible, humans are a curious species.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

I think we need to step back and consider other elements in "the process" which we haven't perhaps given due wight to. There is a danger that we see the personalities involved as master conspirators as opposed to pygmies involved with matters of a scale which is beyond them. Firstly I'm thinking of UEFA's Adjudicatory Chamber. As a whole we are sure that they were not sympathetic to City whatever the case or whatever the evidence/grounds. David Conn assured us that City underestimated the great respect the English football "community" had for UEFA and he went further to tell us that Guy Leterme (the chairman [?] of the AC) was one of the most respected of Belgian prime ministers). In fact Leterme had outraged Belgian public opinion by claiming that Belgian Dutch speakers only spoke Dutch because they were too stupid to speak French. Twice PM, twice he lost motions of confidence and was forced to resign. He gave the impression of being a hothead who had difficulty in controlling his tongue and not acting before thinking. Hence, when City complained about leaks from UEFA Leterme and his much respected AC responded with a furious denial, a two year ban etc. Strong echoes here of the sense of entitlement and self-importance that led them to tell the EJY that the Bosman case was for UEFA to deal with and football contracts were no concern of the courts - another strong case put forward by the football authorities?!

In the event CAS opined (by 2-1) that there was no evidence to support any of the charges brought against City, but the PL's reaction was that their investigation would continue! Sense of entitlement? Klopp and Mourinho were wheeled out to tell us what a bad day for football and what a disgraceful ruling it all was. We suspect, to the point of certainty, the source of the UEFA leaks and the clubs they represented and we are told that it was Levy, a representative of yet another cartel club, who pushed the PL into reviving it's flagging investigation. Enter to 115 charges.

It seems that these charges cover much the same ground covered at CAS and this raises the question of what evidence the PL has and where has it come from. I can't rule out completely any new evidence but I'll have to see it to believe it because the possibility seems remote. And there is influence at work here. I've been watching football since 1955 and in that time The football authorities, English or European, have been to court several times and I don't think they've won one single case. In fact they've set an example of consistency in fighting lost causes in court. I cannot rule out the stupidity of those running football as a factor in all this. More than that the example seems to be one of monumental arrogance - that what happens in football is their concern only and no-one else's: and the courts have reminded them in no uncertain times that this is not the case. I think this time, yet again , that the independent commission will be under no illusion that cases require evidence and that the burden of proof is not light. There is, after all, the brooding presence of the independent regulator in the background but watching carefully.

 

[feelymcfeel]

Both clubs use BDO as Auditor but they’re one of the Big 4 and obviously it’s different actual auditors.

Everton and City both use Blackstone Chambers, as do the PL as they’re the go to chambers for sports law.

Not quite, but they are number 5.

 

[Gordyola]

can anyone enlightened me, a lawyer told me that the same law firm and account people worked for City and Everton is that true ?

from their latest accounts available
Independent Auditor
Crowe U.K. LLP
Black Country House
Rounds Green Road
Oldbury
West Midlands
B69 2DG

Previously it was BDO same as City

Everton auditor considers walking away, raising questions over club’s financing

BDO understood to have told club it won’t do work on its accounts, which sources say is related to Farhad Moshiri’s ownership

www.theguardian.com

Everton denied that BDO were leaving

“Your assertions [about BDO] are based on nothing more than them refusing to discuss a client matter with a third-party journalist. In line with company best practice we do follow audit rotation. However BDO remain our auditors and have not resigned.”

Everton: Finance expert view as new auditors revealed despite denials

Kieran Maguire has shared a concerning view of the situation at Everton after the latest accounts revealed a new set of auditors despite club denials.

www.goodisonnews.com

 

[Gordyola]

Both clubs use BDO as Auditor but they’re one of the Big 4 and obviously it’s different actual auditors.

Everton and City both use Blackstone Chambers, as do the PL as they’re the go to chambers for sports law.

See my post above BDO got out of the Everton gig and were replaced by Crowe

 

[cheekybids]

Of course nobody on this forum knows what ‘evidence’ the PL intends to put forward.

Whilst it’s absolutely not impossible, I would guess that some people just don’t see some of the countries top minds going through several years of investigation, 2 arbitrations, 2 court cases just to re litigate the Der Speigel leaks once again. But of course it’s possible, humans are a curious species.

I struggle to understand why…..

I see top lawyers & politicians lie every day without a care in the world. Absolute bare faced lies & attacks & yet we expect people to stand by the values that we live by.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

he said that the accounting for Everton and City jad the same law fitm and acounting firm I just dont understand where he heard that, Liverpool fan by the way , Lawer and Liverpool fan not the best combo

We don't have the same auditors but we do have the same lawyers, Dodd, Gee, Kuntz and Co.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Of course nobody on this forum knows what ‘evidence’ the PL intends to put forward.

Whilst it’s absolutely not impossible, I would guess that some people just don’t see some of the countries top minds going through several years of investigation, 2 arbitrations, 2 court cases just to re litigate the Der Speigel leaks once again. But of course it’s possible, humans are a curious species.

This is a legal gravy train, surely.

 

[argyle]

Can't wait for us to go nuclear on this.

There will be no going nuclear.

Companies face legal challenges all the time. City will use the best legal team and will fight the charges rigerously and that will be that.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

Listen to this fella he knows his stuff.

You have clearly been smoking too much weed.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

This is my whole point. I can accuse you of whatever. Proving a crime has been committed is a totally different thing.

If all the PL & UEFA have to go on is a sentence in a stolen email from 2012, they're on flimsy ground.

It's evident to me they're not only pursuing these charges in the faint hope some will stick, but in the full knowledge that the reputational damage to City being called fraudsters who wouldn't have achieved success unless we cheated, will be the next best outcome.

It's working too. My Spuds supporting family already believe they'd have won a PL or two if not for us being FFP cheats. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Ask your Spuds supporting family why they did not win anything when there was no FFP.

 

[Dribble]

Ask your Spuds supporting family why they did not win anything when there was no FFP.

They don't tend to allow facts & reality to get in the way of matters they don't really understand.

The whole thing is bullshit. If the PL had the level of evidence against us they claim, then all they have to do is use the word fraud, but they won't.

The moment they come out & accuse us of fraud, we slip from their FFP grip as it'll become a state matter, & judging by what I'm aware of, I doubt the UK courts would be interested past the CPS level.

As I keep saying, FFP & UK Law are two separate things.