Why can't the person who has chosen to end their life do it... It's 2024 so there are surely ways and meansI get the romantic bravado of it all, it seems so simple and nobody wants to think of dying in pain or having to be fed like a baby but there a deeply practical, legal and moral issues at stake here.
You are asking a medical professional to administer a lethal dose whose oath is to neither hasten nor delay death. How can you possibly force them to do so just because it’s lawful to? You can’t so you won’t be pitching up at your local hospital and going through the process - you’ll be needing to travel to a specialist centre - assuming that you could staff it with enough people who are willing to do this.
Then there is a whole debate to be had around consent. You need to have all your faculties and be able to make an informed decision at time of administering it. Medical professionals cannot rely on a pre signed piece of paper to say you agree as you may have changed your mind and they can’t confirm or otherwise so they won’t do it. To overcome this you will be choosing to die whilst you still have a reasonable quality of life.
Once you make it possible for a medically fit person to be killed you open up all sorts of moral and legal issues.
It is certainly an important debate the country should have and be heard to have. I doubt many people have really thought it through and that’s before you get the religious nut jobs involved.
There are indeed already "ways and means" .Why can't the person who has chosen to end their life do it... It's 2024 so there are surely ways and means
You're also assuming that some medical professionals haven't "assisted" with a person's end before... I'm sure that there are many instances out there where a person's end has been "promoted" because of unacceptable pain and suffering...
Nobody has any right to decide if someone who makes this very hard decision is doing it for romantic reasons. As for moral, legal and practical? Again, what has that got to with anybody else?
That’s my point. It shouldn’t. Whichever government in charge at the time should be solely in charge of making sure it’s policed properly, not deciding wherever it’s right or wrong for the person deciding.I can guarantee Mrs MB won’t administer any drugs to help you or anyone else kill themselves irrespective of your legal rights. So it’s got everything to do with someone else.
Why can't the person who has chosen to end their life do it... It's 2024 so there are surely ways and means
You're also assuming that some medical professionals haven't "assisted" with a person's end before... I'm sure that there are many instances out there where a person's end has been "promoted" because of unacceptable pain and suffering...
Exactly what I was alluding to...There are indeed already "ways and means" .
I personally witnessed medical professionals ( allegedly) "hastening" the end of life of my family members with terminal illness.In each case I know 100% it was what my family member would have wanted.
We put animals we love to sleep to end their pain and suffering but won't do it for human beings.
They even ignore DNACPR when they choose to ,despite the patient's clearly documented wishes.
Your choice and very easy to say unless you have actually lived through that sort of event... If my loved one had been helped on their way to end suffering I'd be reporting nobody...You can kill yourself already - why should a medical professional help you? If someone’s death has been hastened a law has been broken and if you have any evidence of that you should report it.
During normal disease trajectories if someone is in unacceptable pain and suffering at the end of their life it’s because they have been failed by whatever specialist services they engage with in the NHS. There are numerous drugs available to medical professionals to ensure a peaceful death.
That’s my point. It shouldn’t. Whichever government in charge at the time should be solely in charge of making sure it’s policed properly, not deciding wherever it’s right or wrong for the person deciding.
Your wife might not be up for it, that’s her choice.
Thankfully I’m sure there would be others to take her place.
Your last paragraph is ultimately where I stand. It is complicated and it is open to abuse which is where I’m coming from when I say policed properly.And that’s why no one is rocking up to their local trust to get this “done” if it should become legal. It will be a single place somewhere in the country.
You say policed properly… what does that even mean? That the person wants to die right now? How do you prove that without that person having capacity and thus a provable quality of life?
There is a danger that we look at the idea of assisted dying too simplistically. For the record I’m not opposed to it as a concept.
Your choice and very easy to say unless you have actually lived through that sort of event... If my loved one had been helped on their way to end suffering I'd be reporting nobody...
So your point about drugs being available is a little moot... They have to be deployed in a timely manner and at the correct doses to be totally effective...Like I say nobody should be suffering, your loved one was let down somewhere along the way.
I recall when my dad’s time had come Mrs MB (specialist palliative care nurse) had to get quite vocal to ensure he got the right support - he would have suffered unnecessarily if it wasn’t for her. You’d be surprised at how few doctors actually are prepared to accept death and will try to actively treat against patient and family wishes - even with paperwork in place. Thats not a dig at them it’s just there MO is saving lives not letting them go.
Been thinking about your second paragraph and I can see what you are alluding to, but I don't think it is as black and white as that.You can kill yourself already - why should a medical professional help you? If someone’s death has been hastened a law has been broken and if you have any evidence of that you should report it.
During normal disease trajectories if someone is in unacceptable pain and suffering at the end of their life it’s because they have been failed by whatever specialist services they engage with in the NHS. There are numerous drugs available to medical professionals to ensure a peaceful death.
You can kill yourself already - why should a medical professional help you? If someone’s death has been hastened a law has been broken and if you have any evidence of that you should report it.
During normal disease trajectories if someone is in unacceptable pain and suffering at the end of their life it’s because they have been failed by whatever specialist services they engage with in the NHS. There are numerous drugs available to medical professionals to ensure a peaceful death.
It’s not naive, I’m pretty sure all of those in favour accept it’s far from straight forward. It’s why the earlier it becomes a subject in the corridors of power the sooner watertight legislation can be implemented.It's an incredibly naïve view to believe that people surrounding an individual always want what's best for that individual, people may very well trust their family but there are a lot of people out there who don't and would be horrified at giving people the power over their life or death.
God forbid the government or council or some Shipman type gets real legal control over who lives and dies.
It’s not naive, I’m pretty sure all of those in favour accept it’s far from straight forward. It’s why the earlier it becomes a subject in the corridors of power the sooner watertight legislation can be implemented.
It beats government dictating to individuals when they’re allowed to say enough is enough.
I’d happily sign a waiver today giving my family the right to switch me off if I’m ever in the horrendous situation of not looking after myself, being a burden and being in pain.This should be a referendum matter IMHO, having a government or relatives you don't know have control of your life is madness.
I’d happily sign a waiver today giving my family the right to switch me off if I’m ever in the horrendous situation of not looking after myself, being a burden and being in pain.
I guess some people look at life as the be all and end all that should be protected at all costs.
That’s never been my view.
There are many, many people that have sufficient control of their faculties that do not still have a reasonable quality of life, and currently, it is illegal in most places for medical professionals to honour their wishes to end their irrevocable suffering.I get the romantic bravado of it all, it seems so simple and nobody wants to think of dying in pain or having to be fed like a baby but there a deeply practical, legal and moral issues at stake here.
You are asking a medical professional to administer a lethal dose whose oath is to neither hasten nor delay death. How can you possibly force them to do so just because it’s lawful to? You can’t so you won’t be pitching up at your local hospital and going through the process - you’ll be needing to travel to a specialist centre - assuming that you could staff it with enough people who are willing to do this.
Then there is a whole debate to be had around consent. You need to have all your faculties and be able to make an informed decision at time of administering it. Medical professionals cannot rely on a pre signed piece of paper to say you agree as you may have changed your mind and they can’t confirm or otherwise so they won’t do it. To overcome this you will be choosing to die whilst you still have a reasonable quality of life.
Once you make it possible for a medically fit person to be killed you open up all sorts of moral and legal issues.
It is certainly an important debate the country should have and be heard to have. I doubt many people have really thought it through and that’s before you get the religious nut jobs involved.
That shouldn’t be a reason for it not to be given air time and put on the table.That's you mate and if you trust your family that's a nice thing, but people without family at the whim of a dodgy doctor or government official?
Nah mate.