North Stand Construction Discussion

[Prophet of Doom]

The same old shit keeps on getting re-posted on here.

It’s quite simple…the new stand doesn’t get built without corporate sections. You may not like it but without them the stand doesn’t get built.

The second point is how many fans want to relocate. If that number is less than 3000 then you can forget any ideas of atmospheric blue walls as the remaining tickets will be filled by tourists and new fans. First course of action should be to find out how many would want to relocate. If the numbers are low then any other ideas are still born.

The only time we have a decent atmosphere is when all 4 sides join in. A new stand with part singers part tourists ain’t gonna make a huge difference.

 

[supercity88]

I take a more positive view regarding the North Stand expansion than others do.

If the club had no interest in creating a "home end" they'd have copied the South Stand with a bolt on hotel and made L2 exclusively corporate. Instead they've really balanced the proposals. A monstrous hotel, a new City Square which will be buzzing. A sky bar and roof walk for the loaded. 650 seats out of 9,000 being right at the front of the new stand and maybe having a bit of padding. But other than a separate pay as you go bar, it's about as basic as it can be. They don't even have segregated toilets. The club have focused their efforts on maximising returns outside of the stand. For every 100 people entering the new stand only 7 would be going to the "posh seats" if you want to call them that. That shouldn't make a difference at all. And for people worried about them standing out, well make enough noise and they'll join in. You'll still have the 1st tier below which will be full of regular blues as well.

It could have been a three tier stand full of hospitality. Let's not focus on what is a minor negative, when we're getting 9,000 in a single tier. This is a positive opportunity.

We can talk about pricing/relocation and all of that. But this lives or dies on the mentality of the fans. If we let a small section of GA+ convince us it's a shit proposal then it's dead already. Or we can move there in our masses and make it an epic new stand with an incredible atmosphere.

 

[Centurions]

The same old shit keeps on getting re-posted on here.

It’s quite simple…the new stand doesn’t get built without corporate sections. You may not like it but without them the stand doesn’t get built.

The second point is how many fans want to relocate. If that number is less than 3000 then you can forget any ideas of atmospheric blue walls as the remaining tickets will be filled by tourists and new fans. First course of action should be to find out how many would want to relocate. If the numbers are low then any other ideas are still born.

The only time we have a decent atmosphere is when all 4 sides join in. A new stand with part singers part tourists ain’t gonna make a huge difference.

What corporate sections are you talking about?

 

[Keeper!]

@Keeper!

From Populous own website

INNOVATION. The stadium is designed to cultivate an extraordinary atmosphere. With a capacity of 62,850, it offers an intimate spectating experience, with stands angled at the steepest permissible slope to bring fans closer to the pitch. The first row of seats is no more than eight metres from the playing surface, surpassing the proximity of any comparable modern stadium. The 17,500-seat South Stand is the country’s largest single-tier stand, designed to generate a powerful ‘wall of sound’, and includes 5,000 safe standing seats in its lower section. Populous collaborated with U2’s sound engineers to optimise the stadium’s acoustics, fine-tuning the reverberation times to amplify the roar of the crowd and further enhance the atmosphere.

“A 17,500-seat megaphone”​

By positioning the premium facilities in the East and West stands, it meant that the initial designs for the southern end of the ground could be revised to create an intimidating single-tier ‘home end’, drawing inspiration from Dortmund’s world-renowned ‘Yellow Wall’ and Anfield’s ‘Kop’ end. The South Stand is the largest of its kind in the country, accommodating 17,500 home fans in a sweeping rise engineered to enhance the natural acoustics of the stand and project a thunderous ‘wall of noise’ on matchdays.

Populous’ team approached the design of the seating bowl as they would for a concert arena, working closely with acoustic engineers to determine the most suitable materials and construction methods to amplify the roar of the crowd. Specially designed panelling is installed beneath the roof to reflect the sound back into the stadium bowl, creating a symphony of noise as the chants reverberate throughout the venue. “Effectively, what we have here is a 17,500-seat megaphone,” says Jones.

View attachment 110993

It's called architectural bull sh1t and probably added an extra zero on the price.

In the old days I went to many a stadium with no roof, wide open to the elements and the atmosphere was pretty good and like now sometimes it was poor and sometimes electric.

We had 8K Geordies in the stadium last week for a cup tie, the atmosphere was very average, why?

Because the game was a non contest and the Barcodes were crap, hence a poor atmosphere.



This is what creates atmosphere

 

[Prophet of Doom]

Skybar and the 658 premium seats at the front that everybody has an issue with.

I know you are gonna get pedantic and say they ain’t corporate - but most on this thread have an issue with them.

 

[Keeper!]

Skybar and the 658 premium seats at the front that everybody has an issue with.

I know you are gonna get pedantic and say they ain’t corporate - but most on this thread have an issue with them.

Incredible, I wonder what the reaction would be if 50% of the new facilities were corporate!

 

[Coatigan]

I take a more positive view regarding the North Stand expansion than others do.

If the club had no interest in creating a "home end" they'd have copied the South Stand with a bolt on hotel and made L2 exclusively corporate. Instead they've really balanced the proposals. A monstrous hotel, a new City Square which will be buzzing. A sky bar and roof walk for the loaded. 650 seats out of 9,000 being right at the front of the new stand and maybe having a bit of padding. But other than a separate pay as you go bar, it's about as basic as it can be. They don't even have segregated toilets. The club have focused their efforts on maximising returns outside of the stand. For every 100 people entering the new stand only 7 would be going to the "posh seats" if you want to call them that. That shouldn't make a difference at all. And for people worried about them standing out, well make enough noise and they'll join in. You'll still have the 1st tier below which will be full of regular blues as well.

It could have been a three tier stand full of hospitality. Let's not focus on what is a minor negative, when we're getting 9,000 in a single tier. This is a positive opportunity.

We can talk about pricing/relocation and all of that. But this lives or dies on the mentality of the fans. If we let a small section of GA+ convince us it's a shit proposal then it's dead already. Or we can move there in our masses and make it an epic new stand with an incredible atmosphere.

I think you nail it there.

The thing is, it doesn't really seem to matter.

We've been making these types of points over and over, I look back and the first time I pointed out the toilets/access/ spacing arrangements on the seating plan, goes back at least as far as May last year when it was first approved. And multiple times thereafter. And you have also said similar multiple times, as have a couple others like parrot, keeper and centurions.

People are ultimately just not that open minded to this particular section and portion of the stand. And we keep getting 'it is tunnel club in the middle of the yellow wall' analogies.

And that is why I think consultations with the club are pretty futile, personally.

I appreciate others have other issues, like pricing, safe standing, allocation and relocation etc, which are all worthy of discussion and clarity. But if it mostly comes down to a misplaced crusade against corporate, for this little section, then I would guess it will end as it began.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, could you expand?

But since you brought it up.

Its size is 400sqm. Which can take a capacity of up to about 600 depending on seating layouts. Which coincides with the number of seats described as 'hospitality/GA' (and the /GA is actually important here) above it. It is smaller than the 3 hotel bar areas in the same development.

The layout is that of a bog standard bar, i.e no booths, private areas, dining zones etc.

For a bit more context. The main concourse 'common man' bar areas that surround it are 1,300sqm, excluding general spill out zones. The 'hospitality bar' has 5 access points to the concourse areas. Probably the most interesting thing, it doesn't have its own toilets! It shares the main concourse toilets. Pardon the pun, but does that not just piss on the whole notion it is this exclusive corporate bubble people imagine?

The reality of it is, it is just another bar, as part of a busy concourse of multiple bars. Take the purple colour off it, take the hospitality out of the hospitality/GA lable, and there is literally no difference between that and the rest. The seating within the stand is also no different, in size, spacing etc.

If on matchdays the club decide to sell those tickets without the +surcharge, the whole thing just gets used as one. If as someone suggested, the club choose to use it as storage of inflatable bananas, banners, flags and vuvuzelas, it allows for that too. The whole thing looks like it has actually been thought about, and is quite flexible.

I know some people don't trust the club, and think this is sneaking in corporate, but to me it just looks far more fluid than that. I've mentioned before, the pac report states the team had biweekly meetings with the planners for a period of about 5 or 6 months ahead of the submission. It is entirely possible, that the planners may have had an issue with the amount of bar offerings (which is within their remit). And that defining a portion and designating it as dedicated 'hospitality' for a select group, eased their concerns, it is not uncommon. It is also possible that the club just don't know exactly what they want yet, and are getting approval for something that gives them multiple options in the future.

Either way, that flexibility is there, and once approved or even built as per, will remain there. I think it is great fans continue to engage with the club, and I'm keen to hear the feedback myself. I just don't think there is this 'now or never' fight to be had over it.

I do get to an extent why people are worried over a '+' on a page, and some purple colour on one of the bar areas on a drawing.

I don't get why you think the whole stand will work or fail over this section.

It is not 'corporate'. It is not even that bloody '+'. Same seat size and spacing, same access in and out. All it has that's different, is direct access to a 400sqm bar. Which then has 5 access points to the same concourse and the two adjacent bigger 'common man bars' either side. With which it shares the same toilets. The bar layouts are the same throughout, the capacity is the same throughout, the + bar doesn't get any more room, booths, or its own toilets.

If it didn't have the + or the colour, literally nobody here would be able to tell the difference or worry about it. It would just look like one big area full of bars serving a large stand.

Which means it can easily change at any point to not be '+'. Or on the flipside, if it wasn't already that and everyone was happy now, that it couldn't change to '+' at any point in the future.

And incidentally, the bar isn't even 'that' separate. With 5 access points to the rest of the concourse and the bigger bars around it, and no toilets of its own. And a similar ratio of space per head (i.e no booths, private areas, dining pods etc)

People in there will inevitably mix with others in the stand whether they want to or not. Which all affects a joint atmosphere, and the desire to sing/add to the noise. Imho.

I know I am as guilty as anyone else in making it repetative, but while it keeps getting brought up as a hard claim, I will keep questioning it.

And will of course look forward to the outcome of the process.

And in the meantime, there are good discussions going on over the construction itself, which for me is the most interesting part of this thread currently, even of others scoff at it.

 

[Coatigan]

Skybar and the 658 premium seats at the front that everybody has an issue with.

I know you are gonna get pedantic and say they ain’t corporate - but most on this thread have an issue with them.

The skybar IS corporate. Not really seen anyone have an issue with it, given where it is.

The 648 are simply not. But you are right, people have an issue with them.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

I think you nail it there.

The thing is, it doesn't really seem to matter.

We've been making these types of points over and over, I look back and the first time I pointed out the toilets/access/ spacing arrangements on the seating plan, goes back at least as far as May last year when it was first approved. And multiple times thereafter. And you have also said similar multiple times, as have a couple others like parrot, keeper and centurions.

People are ultimately just not that open minded to this particular section and portion of the stand. And we keep getting 'it is tunnel club in the middle of the yellow wall' analogies.

And that is why I think consultations with the club are pretty futile, personally.

I appreciate others have other issues, like pricing, safe standing, allocation and relocation etc, which are all worthy of discussion and clarity. But if it mostly comes down to a misplaced crusade against corporate, for this little section, then I would guess it will end as it began.








I know I am as guilty as anyone else in making it repetative, but while it keeps getting brought up as a hard claim, I will keep questioning it.

And will of course look forward to the outcome of the process.

And in the meantime, there are good discussions going on over the construction itself, which for me is the most interesting part of this thread currently, even of others scoff at it.

Every man is an island.

 

[Coatigan]

Every man is an island.

12,000+ islands under one roof should still make some noise though.

 

[supercity88]

The same old shit keeps on getting re-posted on here.

It’s quite simple…the new stand doesn’t get built without corporate sections. You may not like it but without them the stand doesn’t get built.

The second point is how many fans want to relocate. If that number is less than 3000 then you can forget any ideas of atmospheric blue walls as the remaining tickets will be filled by tourists and new fans. First course of action should be to find out how many would want to relocate. If the numbers are low then any other ideas are still born.

The only time we have a decent atmosphere is when all 4 sides join in. A new stand with part singers part tourists ain’t gonna make a huge difference.

Hopefully the pricing entices people to make the move. If they get it right and market it as a new City home end then it should be full of singers. Configuration can make a big difference to atmosphere. Depending on the game, everyone in the ground will sing. But plenty aren't comfortable to do so when they're sat in an otherwise silent section. It shouldn't be too difficult to get 9,000 blues in the NS to sing and generate an atmosphere and with the acoustics of that stand the noise should spiral around the ground and make it easier for others to join in.

The current situation is a major issue in that we have groups of singers in different locations, unable to hear one another. SSL3 under the roof gets noise going. You can hear that section most if you sit elsewhere in the ground (although it depends where, in the majority of places I'd say). SSL1 has singing sections, but the noise doesn't travel as well because it doesn't have the roof to bounce the sound off. Just makes it all disjointed.

But if pricing is cheap, you could take a large chunk of people from those sections into the NS and it will make a racket. You'll have some who want to give the away fans some, but rather than cheerleading the atmosphere, they'll be joining in with the NS like the rest of the ground.

Sound levels for big games will rise naturally with an extra 9,000 people in the ground. But they'll also improve with singers being located under a roof, where the sound is contained rather than just dispersed into the air. That's going to make a big difference. We've all been to away grounds where you get a large number together under the roof and it's always much louder than in other grounds where you're spread over a couple of tiers or in the lower tier. It shouldn't be downplayed how much impact that will make.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Hopefully the pricing entices people to make the move. If they get it right and market it as a new City home end then it should be full of singers. Configuration can make a big difference to atmosphere. Depending on the game, everyone in the ground will sing. But plenty aren't comfortable to do so when they're sat in an otherwise silent section. It shouldn't be too difficult to get 9,000 blues in the NS to sing and generate an atmosphere and with the acoustics of that stand the noise should spiral around the ground and make it easier for others to join in.

The current situation is a major issue in that we have groups of singers in different locations, unable to hear one another. SSL3 under the roof gets noise going. You can hear that section most if you sit elsewhere in the ground (although it depends where, in the majority of places I'd say). SSL1 has singing sections, but the noise doesn't travel as well because it doesn't have the roof to bounce the sound off. Just makes it all disjointed.

But if pricing is cheap, you could take a large chunk of people from those sections into the NS and it will make a racket. You'll have some who want to give the away fans some, but rather than cheerleading the atmosphere, they'll be joining in with the NS like the rest of the ground.

Sound levels for big games will rise naturally with an extra 9,000 people in the ground. But they'll also improve with singers being located under a roof, where the sound is contained rather than just dispersed into the air. That's going to make a big difference. We've all been to away grounds where you get a large number together under the roof and it's always much louder than in other grounds where you're spread over a couple of tiers or in the lower tier. It shouldn't be downplayed how much impact that will make.

....which is why, as part of the reorganisation of the ground, away fans should be relocated & wrapped round the corner of L1 ES & NS.

It 'splits' them, positions them in the most 'open' location,reduces safety issues(throwing), maintains segregation/security and coach park logistics.

It can be done, should be done and will set the stadium up for the best arr

I honestly don't think there is much I could contribute. But if that changes, of course.

Fair play to you and the best of luck with it.

Perhaps less of the dismissive jibes on this thread, in the meantime.

Agent Provocateur.

 

[supercity88]

....which is why, as part of the reorganisation of the ground, away fans should be relocated & wrapped round the corner of L1 ES & NS.

It 'splits' them, positions them in the most 'open' location,reduces safety issues(throwing), maintains segregation/security and coach park logistics.

It can be done, should be done and will set the stadium up for the best arr

Agent Provocateur.

I've always been in favour of that idea.

The issue is managing that relocation. That's a lot of people having to move. And when you're trying to get people to form a home end in the NS (which is what I hope the intention is) then having more availability in the SS doesn't necessarily help. But in the long term it would improve the atmosphere because you'd have all of SSL3 for City fans and the whole of the NS too. So big groups at both ends under the roof to generate atmosphere.

Not sure how it would work for additional allocations in the cup though.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

I've always been in favour of that idea.

The issue is managing that relocation. That's a lot of people having to move. And when you're trying to get people to form a home end in the NS (which is what I hope the intention is) then having more availability in the SS doesn't necessarily help. But in the long term it would improve the atmosphere because you'd have all of SSL3 for City fans and the whole of the NS too. So big groups at both ends under the roof to generate atmosphere.

Not sure how it would work for additional allocations in the cup though.

Understood.

If it were possible,it would be great to achieve all the relocations in one in move.

If however, for what ever reasons, this was not possible it could be programmed over 2 seasons.

Pep has spoken regularly about the necessity for a better atmosphere, Khaldoon has spoken about a ‘Blue Wall’ home end, all the quotable fans groups want an ‘exclusive home singing end’.

I really hope that the executives who read BM take on board this/these opportunities and circulate our views to Pep & the Chairman.

A once in a generation chance to give the team and fans what we’ve always wanted and needed.

 

[Coatigan]

Agent Provocateur.

Me, or you?

 

[Coatigan]

You guys do know that when Pep speaks of wanting better atmosphere, he is talking about current games, fans pushing the team when complacency sets in, when routine nights are lacking an edge etc etc, right?

He is not actually talking about future new stands and padding of seats and design of the roof.

 

[KS55]

Understood.

If it were possible,it would be great to achieve all the relocations in one in move.

If however, for what ever reasons, this was not possible it could be programmed over 2 seasons.

Pep has spoken regularly about the necessity for a better atmosphere, Khaldoon has spoken about a ‘Blue Wall’ home end, all the quotable fans groups want an ‘exclusive home singing end’.

I really hope that the executives who read BM take on board this/these opportunities and circulate our views to Pep & the Chairman.

A once in a generation chance to give the team and fans what we’ve always wanted and needed.

We had a blue wall on the old Kippax. (Ok only when we were not shite!) Subsequent all seating rules killed it for many clubs. We can bring it back with the right configuration and prices that younger fans can meet. I can’t say I have too much expectation of decent pricing.

 

[richards30]

You guys do know that when Pep speaks of wanting better atmosphere, he is talking about current games, fans pushing the team when complacency sets in, when routine nights are lacking an edge etc etc, right?

He is not actually talking about future new stands and padding of seats and design of the roof.

Exactly! I posted earlier its about when things arent going great during the game he needs the fans to be more vocal and not as quiet?

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Exactly! I posted earlier its about when things arent going great during the game he needs the fans to be more vocal and not as quiet?

Strange post.

Do you believe that Pep would like a more atmospheric stadium for ALL games ?

Is Khaldoon wrong about a 'Blue Wall'of singing home fans ?

Correct decisions now would provide both.

 

[ancoats]

Strange post.

Do you believe that Pep would like a more atmospheric stadium for ALL games ?

Is Khaldoon wrong about a 'Blue Wall'of singing home fans ?

Correct decisions now would provide both.

Liverpool and United Atmospheric stadiums are only in big games just like City games at the Etihad
Myths about City having no fans and empty everyweek is just nonsense