PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[KS55]

You have the patience of a saint. I'd have just told him to fuck off by now.

I’m no saint…I just like an argument, but I would prefer an adult opponent.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I’m no saint…I just like an argument, but I would prefer an adult opponent.

Only another week until the holidays finish;-)

 

[Centurions]

You may have noticed that I said “follow it from there”.Had you bothered you would have seen how the PL took up the cudgel.
Im leaving your rabbit hole now.
You didn’t have the courtesy to acknowledge that you had put words in my mouth which ascribed to me beliefs which I do not hold. I thought it may have been accidental but your continuing to do it tells me it is deliberately dishonest. What a pity that you queer your own pitch so much.

They're deliberately misinterpreting what people are posting at this point, that's become very obvious.

 

[Dribble]

No, its much more straightforward than the winning of titles. You need to follow the money...

The important thing with regards to the money is qualification for the Champions League. Once you're there. you earn significantly greater income (and profit) by extra TV, commercial deals, matchday income etc. In England, it was all very nice - three spots for Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal. Then along come Chelsea and miraculously a fourth spot opens up. Then along comes City and...oh, wait a minute. the existing teams can't simply guarantee qualifying each year. Even more problematic with Newcastle threatening to join the party....

So actually who wins is irrelevant, just being in the room's the key to this. So, stop the new guys becoming good enough, and as a side issue relieve the pressure on the existing teams actually ahving to spend to keep up...

Hence why I said if City were Europa/Conference League regulars, little of this would be happening to us in terms of FFP/PSR, because it would be deemed to have achieved its objective in stopping us.

City winning the Premier League is bad enough, but because that means we occupy a vital Champions League spot too, one of the old Sky Four has to miss out on qualification.

Winning the PL & the CL qualification that comes with it, are inextricably linked.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

It did have an effect

Rodwell and Sinclair in summer 2012 rather than Di Rossi and Hazard

We’ve succeeded in spite of the hurdles deliberately placed in our way

Those and other signings were designed to piss Bobby Manc off.

They had to wait another 12 months to achieve that after four players including David Silva,allegedly,said they would leave if he stayed.

 

[domalino]

You may have noticed that I said “follow it from there”.Had you bothered you would have seen how the PL took up the cudgel.
Im leaving your rabbit hole now.
You didn’t have the courtesy to acknowledge that you had put words in my mouth which ascribed to me beliefs which I do not hold. I thought it may have been accidental but your continuing to do it tells me it is deliberately dishonest. What a pity that you queer your own pitch so much.

OK so lets follow it....The PL didn't try to do anything until 2022. Is waiting doing nothing for 4 years "taking up the cudgel"? No. Clearly fucking not.

By which time City were already the dominant team in the league, had all their related party tranactions scrutinised and approved multiple times and were 100% certain would not be impacted by the new rules. Not much of a "cudgel" is it?

And then you accuse me of dishonesty!?

There's just a massive gaping hole in your logic that you can't reconcile because the Dec 2022 rule changes had nothing to do with City, and yet you're so fucking desperate to pretend they were so it can be fed into your persecution complex.

 

[Dribble]

I’m sure the old money of the aristocracy wanted the new money of the industrialists gone post WWI, it didn’t turn out that way did it?

Agreed. The state of post war UK & the Labour government who didn't care too much for the establishment put paid to that.

Remember, the old money & establishment of the aristocracy & ruling classes were vehemently opposed to the post-war Welfare State & the NHS, but they didn't mind sending millions of poor working class folk to die on the killing fields of Europe to defend their state.

 

[KS55]

No, its much more straightforward than the winning of titles. You need to follow the money...

The important thing with regards to the money is qualification for the Champions League. Once you're there. you earn significantly greater income (and profit) by extra TV, commercial deals, matchday income etc. In England, it was all very nice - three spots for Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal. Then along come Chelsea and miraculously a fourth spot opens up. Then along comes City and...oh, wait a minute. the existing teams can't simply guarantee qualifying each year. Even more problematic with Newcastle threatening to join the party....

So actually who wins is irrelevant, just being in the room's the key to this. So, stop the new guys becoming good enough, and as a side issue relieve the pressure on the existing teams actually ahving to spend to keep up...

And when they are good enough and start earning mega bucks in prize money and bonuses from their sponsors, accuse them of falsifying their accounts. And if you are the chief football writer in the Times and you can’t put lies there, put them on Twitter.

 

[Axel Freed]

Those and other signings were designed to piss Bobby Manc off.

They had to wait another 12 months to achieve that after four players including David Silva,allegedly,said they would leave if he stayed.

I don’t think the club decided not to buy two players that could’ve helped us establish a similar hegemony to what we have now. Had Khaldoon wanted to get rid of him then he’d have got rid of him.

FFP was behind that decision

 

[At-Swim-Two-Birds]

It's all about the money and maintaining income streams. All clubs try to influence things in their favour. Over the years some clubs have garnered more influence than others. This influence does not necessarily correlate with current footballing success.

For example reports at the time suggested that Liverpool and Manchester United held private talks with the candidates selected by the EPL's nominating committee to succeed Richard Scudamore. Three candidates were selected, offered and declined the position before Masters accepted.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

I don’t think the club decided not to buy two players that could’ve helped us establish a similar hegemony to what we have now. Had Khaldoon wanted to get rid of him then he’d have got rid of him.

FFP was behind that decision

We'd just won the league,Bobby was King !!

Do you really think that he targeted players like Sinclaire & Rodwell ??

The DoF bought those players without Bobby's involvement as a demonstration of 'I'm in charge'.

The anti Bobby agenda was in full play !!

 

[StockportJB76]

Forward planning is what all businesses do. If you are building a squad to compete over the coming 10 years,planning for Champions League Qualification, etc are paramount. The Premier League can not allow the Red Cartel and particularly the two north west protagonists to fail.

I believe that those two are particularly worried about the next 5 to 10 years, hense they have got through the present unworkable system.

The rabbit in the hat and what is particularly worrying for them is the new club World Cup format and prize money. This can send City onto a different stratosphere in terms of turnover and profitability, every time they compete.Imagine a season when City win Premiership, new club World Cup and semi-final in Champions League verses a red cartel club not gaining Champions league qualification.

That is why they got to get us now on the charges, or a red cardel club could spiral into irrelevance, which they will not allow.

 

[Tbilisi]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522

Some interesting figures.

 

[Axel Freed]

We'd just won the league,Bobby was King !!

Do you really think that he targeted players like Sinclaire & Rodwell ??

The DoF bought those players without Bobby's involvement as a demonstration of 'I'm in charge'.

The anti Bobby agenda was in full play !!

I agree that he didn’t want those clowns but that doesn’t mean that we as a club weren’t hampered in our attempts to buy proper players that summer by FFP

 

[halfcenturyup]

OK so lets follow it....The PL didn't try to do anything until 2022. Is waiting doing nothing for 4 years "taking up the cudgel"? No. Clearly fucking not.

By which time City were already the dominant team in the league, had all their related party tranactions scrutinised and approved multiple times and were 100% certain would not be impacted by the new rules. Not much of a "cudgel" is it?

And then you accuse me of dishonesty!?

There's just a massive gaping hole in your logic that you can't reconcile because the Dec 2022 rule changes had nothing to do with City, and yet you're so fucking desperate to pretend they were so it can be fed into your persecution complex.

Look at it again from the point of view of protecting the "cartel" clubs in Europe (if we are talking about UEFA) and England (if we are talking about the PL) from increased competition whether from City, Newcastle or newcomers such as Villa, rather than just stopping City.

Imho, the actions taken, and the timing of them, make more sense in that light, including the RPT/APT rules.

I admire your optimism that this new FFP regime will have any different objectives to the previous incarnations. But I don't share it. Don't forget, all we have to go on is a press article presumably leaked by a club with a vested interest in seeing that particular outcome. No details at all, just a few throw-away lines.

 

[Chi-town blues]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522

Some interesting figures.

Would you mind copy pasting what’s inside ? I’m a married man and don’t like to touch bbc with my finger .

 

[waspish]

Would you mind copy pasting what’s inside ? I’m a married man and don’t like to touch bbc with my finger .

Premier League clubs' £1bn of losses in 11 charts

Last updated on 4 April 20244 April 2024.
From the section Premier League
972

index image showing Premier League clubs and their levels of debt
It has been called "the season of asterisks" but, with Premier League charges and points deductions dominating the news agenda, understanding football finances has become crucial for fans.

Everton and Nottingham Forest's rule breaches off the pitch could have a big say in the relegation battle on it, while Wolves, Aston Villa and Leicester have posted eye-watering losses in recent weeks.

With the help of football finance expert Kieran Maguire and his database of club accounts up to 2023, BBC Sport attempts to break down the overall Premier League picture in 11 charts.

At the time of publication, full 2023 accounts were unavailable for Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham and Leeds, so their figures are based on 2022 accounts. Fulham's accounts are therefore from their Championship season 2021-2022. We will update the article when those accounts are published on Companies House.

1 & 2. Revenues

Graph showing the Premier League clubs total revenue for 2022 and 2023
Chart showing the Premier League clubs' total revenue for 2022 and 2023
"The Premier League has been spectacularly successful since it started in 1992," says Maguire. "Since that time consumer prices have increased by about 112% but Premier League revenues have increased by 2,800%.

"Clubs generate their revenue from three main sources: matchday, broadcast and commercial/sponsorship."

The combination of European football, higher Premier League merit payments and bigger stadiums show the gap between Newcastle and the 'big six' of Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham.

Graph showing where each Premier League's revenue came from in either 2022 or 2023, depending on accounts filed
Chart showing where each Premier League club's revenue came from in either 2022 or 2023, depending on accounts filed
3. Total wages

Wages are the biggest day-to-day running cost at a club.

Maguire says there is "an extremely high correlation between wages and final league position", but the following charts show the obvious risk and challenge for Leicester, who were relegated with the seventh highest wage bill in 2023.

Chart showing each Premier League club's total wage bill for 2022 and 2023
Chart showing each Premier League club's total wage bill for 2022 and 2023
4. Average weekly wages

Chart showing each Premier League club's average weekly wage for the playing squad
Chart showing each Premier League club's average weekly wage for the playing squad
5. Wages as a percentage of income

Why is all this data on wages important?

Uefa's new Financial Fair Play (FFP) measures allow clubs which compete in their competitions to spend 90% of their income on wages, transfers and agents fees in 2023-24, reducing to 80% in 2024-25 and 70% in 2025-26.

The Premier League could follow a similar ratio if it votes to change its financial rules for 2024-25.

Interestingly - Fulham's 2022 Championship season accounts aside - Leicester, Everton and Forest all top this chart, having all faced Premier League Profit and Sustainability (PSR) charges...

Premier League clubs' wage bill to income ratio (Fulham is 2022 Championship season so an outlier)
Premier League clubs' wage bill to income ratio (Fulham is 2022 Championship season, so an outlier)
6. Amortisation

Chelsea's strategy under owner Todd Boehly of signing expensive young players on long contracts to spread the cost introduced the word 'amortisation' to the footballing lexicon.

Enzo Fernandez's eight-year deal as part of his £106m transfer was one high-profile example.

This graph shows total amortisation cost for the financial year and relates to all the players in the squad who have been signed for transfer fees. It counts as a cost on Premier League profit and sustainability (PSR) accounts.

Premier League clubs total cost of transfers and contracts amortisation as of 2022 and 2023
Chelsea, despite this chart showing their 2022 accounts, still have the highest total amortisation cost
7 & 8. Profit/loss

Chart showing Premier League club's losses in Profit Before Tax for 2023
Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham and Leeds do not have a value in this chart for Profit Before Tax (PBT) as their full accounts have not yet been published on Companies House. Chelsea (£90m), Fulham (£26m) and Palace (£24m) have announced initial top line losses for 2023.
Maguire says wages and transfer fees absorb about 90% of total Premier League revenue across all 20 clubs, with most clubs losing money day-to-day. Selling players or relying on owner generosity are the only way to cover the losses.

"It cost former Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich about £900,000 a week for 19 years in terms of interest-free loans to cover the club's losses," Maguire said.

In their press releases on finances, clubs often declare a profit before tax (PBT) figure - which includes players being sold or bought - such as Bournemouth's £44m profit or Everton's £89m loss.

Maguire's figures also show a separate, more stark profit and loss chart for 2022-23, where the money recouped from player sales is excluded due to it being a "volatile", unpredictable market.

In this chart, only Brentford (£4m) made a profit from day-to-day trading and the total losses of the 20 Premier League clubs were about £1bn - even without the 2023 accounts of big-spending Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Leeds and Fulham.

Chart showing Premier League club's losses without player sales
This chart shows that - when you remove the up and down market of player trading from their accounts - every Premier League club except Brentford made a loss in their 2023 or 2022 accounts
Premier League: Who owns your club and what does it mean?
9. Player trading

As BBC Sport reported this week, Brighton's profits of £123m after tax for 2022-23 were a Premier League record - and did not even include the combined £125m sale of Moises Caicedo and Roberto Sanchez to Chelsea.

They were one of very few Premier League clubs not to record a negative net spend from player trading, underlining the difficulty of executing owner Tony Bloom and chief executive Paul Barber's strategy.

This chart shows how much each Premier League club had spent or made after buying and selling players in the football accounting year up to May or June 2023 in most cases.
This chart shows how much each Premier League club spent or made after buying and selling players in the football accounting year up to May or June 2023 in most cases
10. Total squad costs

A chart showing total squad cost at the point which each Premier League club
The total squad cost at the point which each Premier League club filed their accounts - most are from 2023. Chelsea's is from 2022.
Another chart, like wages and revenue, that reflects the strength of the 'big six'.

Maguire says: "At the end of 2022-23 Premier League clubs had invested over £9bn on transfer fees, building their squads over the years, with both Manchester City and Chelsea spending more than £1bn each."

Here's a further table to illustrate that £9bn figure...

A 10-year report from the CIES Football Observatory report on the highest net-spending clubs in the world since 2014 shows Premier League net spending compared to some of the European giants.

Highest net spending (2014-2023)
1. Manchester United - £1,196.6m 11. Aston Villa - £414.3m
2. Chelsea - £885.5m 12. Liverpool - £395.3m
3. Paris St-Germain - £865.8m 13. Al-Hilal - £391.3m
4. Arsenal - £746.9m 14. Juventus - £385m
5. Manchester City - £733.8m 15. Everton - £336.1m
6. Newcastle United - £575.2m 16. Crystal Palace - £322.3m
7. Barcelona - £568.4m 17. Bournemouth - £294.9m
8. Tottenham - £522.1m 18. Bayern Munich - £294.1m
9. AC Milan - £467.3m 19. Real Madrid - £277.6m
10. West Ham - £451.9m 20. Nottingham Forest - £265.8m
Stats from CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report
Since 2014 the Premier League's combined net spend is more than £9.5bn, the Chinese Super League is second with £1.14bn, and the Saudi Pro League is third with a net spend of about £1.13bn.

In comparison, the Portuguese Primeira Liga made a profit of about £1.9bn on player transfers in the same period.

11. Total debt

And to the big one....

Football is an expensive business. And then there is the significant borrowing of clubs such as Manchester United or Tottenham for their new stadium.

"Net debt is the total amount of borrowings that a club has, less any cash," says Maguire.

According to his figures, current Premier League club debt levels are approximately £3.6bn...

Chart showing each Premier League club's net debt position
Chelsea's net debt figure here is an outlier as it is a 2022 figure when Todd Boehly's consortium bought the club from Roman Abramovich for £4.25bn. Abramovich did not ask for his £1.5bn loan to Chelsea to be repaid.
Additional reporting by Sam Chadderton. Visual Journalism by Lee Martin.

View Comments972

 

[Dannyblue52]

Would you mind copy pasting what’s inside ? I’m a married man and don’t like to touch bbc with my finger .

what's really interesting is the losses for the scumand Villa who lost more than allowed over 3 years in one year. Where are the charges? Or is a rule change pending to stop them from a points deduction

 

[domalino]

Look at it again from the point of view of protecting the "cartel" clubs in Europe (if we are talking about UEFA) and England (if we are talking about the PL) from increased competition whether from City, Newcastle or newcomers such as Villa, rather than just stopping City.

Imho, the actions taken, and the timing of them, make more sense in that light, including the RPT/APT rules.

I admire your optimism that this new FFP regime will have any different objectives to the previous incarnations. But I don't share it. Don't forget, all we have to go on is a press article presumably leaked by a club with a vested interest in seeing that particular outcome. No details at all, just a few throw-away lines.

Can you explain how the luxury tax system in the NBA, as proposed to be the basis of the new PL system protects "cartel" clubs?

 

[Chi-town blues]

Premier League clubs' £1bn of losses in 11 charts

Last updated on 4 April 20244 April 2024.
From the section Premier League
972

index image showing Premier League clubs and their levels of debt
It has been called "the season of asterisks" but, with Premier League charges and points deductions dominating the news agenda, understanding football finances has become crucial for fans.

Everton and Nottingham Forest's rule breaches off the pitch could have a big say in the relegation battle on it, while Wolves, Aston Villa and Leicester have posted eye-watering losses in recent weeks.

With the help of football finance expert Kieran Maguire and his database of club accounts up to 2023, BBC Sport attempts to break down the overall Premier League picture in 11 charts.

At the time of publication, full 2023 accounts were unavailable for Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham and Leeds, so their figures are based on 2022 accounts. Fulham's accounts are therefore from their Championship season 2021-2022. We will update the article when those accounts are published on Companies House.

1 & 2. Revenues

Graph showing the Premier League clubs total revenue for 2022 and 2023
Chart showing the Premier League clubs' total revenue for 2022 and 2023
"The Premier League has been spectacularly successful since it started in 1992," says Maguire. "Since that time consumer prices have increased by about 112% but Premier League revenues have increased by 2,800%.

"Clubs generate their revenue from three main sources: matchday, broadcast and commercial/sponsorship."

The combination of European football, higher Premier League merit payments and bigger stadiums show the gap between Newcastle and the 'big six' of Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham.

Graph showing where each Premier League's revenue came from in either 2022 or 2023, depending on accounts filed
Chart showing where each Premier League club's revenue came from in either 2022 or 2023, depending on accounts filed
3. Total wages

Wages are the biggest day-to-day running cost at a club.

Maguire says there is "an extremely high correlation between wages and final league position", but the following charts show the obvious risk and challenge for Leicester, who were relegated with the seventh highest wage bill in 2023.

Chart showing each Premier League club's total wage bill for 2022 and 2023
Chart showing each Premier League club's total wage bill for 2022 and 2023
4. Average weekly wages

Chart showing each Premier League club's average weekly wage for the playing squad
Chart showing each Premier League club's average weekly wage for the playing squad
5. Wages as a percentage of income

Why is all this data on wages important?

Uefa's new Financial Fair Play (FFP) measures allow clubs which compete in their competitions to spend 90% of their income on wages, transfers and agents fees in 2023-24, reducing to 80% in 2024-25 and 70% in 2025-26.

The Premier League could follow a similar ratio if it votes to change its financial rules for 2024-25.

Interestingly - Fulham's 2022 Championship season accounts aside - Leicester, Everton and Forest all top this chart, having all faced Premier League Profit and Sustainability (PSR) charges...

Premier League clubs' wage bill to income ratio (Fulham is 2022 Championship season so an outlier)
Premier League clubs' wage bill to income ratio (Fulham is 2022 Championship season, so an outlier)
6. Amortisation

Chelsea's strategy under owner Todd Boehly of signing expensive young players on long contracts to spread the cost introduced the word 'amortisation' to the footballing lexicon.

Enzo Fernandez's eight-year deal as part of his £106m transfer was one high-profile example.

This graph shows total amortisation cost for the financial year and relates to all the players in the squad who have been signed for transfer fees. It counts as a cost on Premier League profit and sustainability (PSR) accounts.

Premier League clubs total cost of transfers and contracts amortisation as of 2022 and 2023
Chelsea, despite this chart showing their 2022 accounts, still have the highest total amortisation cost
7 & 8. Profit/loss

Chart showing Premier League club's losses in Profit Before Tax for 2023
Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham and Leeds do not have a value in this chart for Profit Before Tax (PBT) as their full accounts have not yet been published on Companies House. Chelsea (£90m), Fulham (£26m) and Palace (£24m) have announced initial top line losses for 2023.
Maguire says wages and transfer fees absorb about 90% of total Premier League revenue across all 20 clubs, with most clubs losing money day-to-day. Selling players or relying on owner generosity are the only way to cover the losses.

"It cost former Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich about £900,000 a week for 19 years in terms of interest-free loans to cover the club's losses," Maguire said.

In their press releases on finances, clubs often declare a profit before tax (PBT) figure - which includes players being sold or bought - such as Bournemouth's £44m profit or Everton's £89m loss.

Maguire's figures also show a separate, more stark profit and loss chart for 2022-23, where the money recouped from player sales is excluded due to it being a "volatile", unpredictable market.

In this chart, only Brentford (£4m) made a profit from day-to-day trading and the total losses of the 20 Premier League clubs were about £1bn - even without the 2023 accounts of big-spending Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Leeds and Fulham.

Chart showing Premier League club's losses without player sales
This chart shows that - when you remove the up and down market of player trading from their accounts - every Premier League club except Brentford made a loss in their 2023 or 2022 accounts
Premier League: Who owns your club and what does it mean?
9. Player trading

As BBC Sport reported this week, Brighton's profits of £123m after tax for 2022-23 were a Premier League record - and did not even include the combined £125m sale of Moises Caicedo and Roberto Sanchez to Chelsea.

They were one of very few Premier League clubs not to record a negative net spend from player trading, underlining the difficulty of executing owner Tony Bloom and chief executive Paul Barber's strategy.

This chart shows how much each Premier League club had spent or made after buying and selling players in the football accounting year up to May or June 2023 in most cases.
This chart shows how much each Premier League club spent or made after buying and selling players in the football accounting year up to May or June 2023 in most cases
10. Total squad costs

A chart showing total squad cost at the point which each Premier League club
The total squad cost at the point which each Premier League club filed their accounts - most are from 2023. Chelsea's is from 2022.
Another chart, like wages and revenue, that reflects the strength of the 'big six'.

Maguire says: "At the end of 2022-23 Premier League clubs had invested over £9bn on transfer fees, building their squads over the years, with both Manchester City and Chelsea spending more than £1bn each."

Here's a further table to illustrate that £9bn figure...

A 10-year report from the CIES Football Observatory report on the highest net-spending clubs in the world since 2014 shows Premier League net spending compared to some of the European giants.

Highest net spending (2014-2023)
1. Manchester United - £1,196.6m 11. Aston Villa - £414.3m
2. Chelsea - £885.5m 12. Liverpool - £395.3m
3. Paris St-Germain - £865.8m 13. Al-Hilal - £391.3m
4. Arsenal - £746.9m 14. Juventus - £385m
5. Manchester City - £733.8m 15. Everton - £336.1m
6. Newcastle United - £575.2m 16. Crystal Palace - £322.3m
7. Barcelona - £568.4m 17. Bournemouth - £294.9m
8. Tottenham - £522.1m 18. Bayern Munich - £294.1m
9. AC Milan - £467.3m 19. Real Madrid - £277.6m
10. West Ham - £451.9m 20. Nottingham Forest - £265.8m
Stats from CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report
Since 2014 the Premier League's combined net spend is more than £9.5bn, the Chinese Super League is second with £1.14bn, and the Saudi Pro League is third with a net spend of about £1.13bn.

In comparison, the Portuguese Primeira Liga made a profit of about £1.9bn on player transfers in the same period.

11. Total debt

And to the big one....

Football is an expensive business. And then there is the significant borrowing of clubs such as Manchester United or Tottenham for their new stadium.

"Net debt is the total amount of borrowings that a club has, less any cash," says Maguire.

According to his figures, current Premier League club debt levels are approximately £3.6bn...

Chart showing each Premier League club's net debt position
Chelsea's net debt figure here is an outlier as it is a 2022 figure when Todd Boehly's consortium bought the club from Roman Abramovich for £4.25bn. Abramovich did not ask for his £1.5bn loan to Chelsea to be repaid.
Additional reporting by Sam Chadderton. Visual Journalism by Lee Martin.

View Comments972

fantastic, thanks