What has the UK become under the far right influence?

[Bluemanc100]

You don’t support saving lives at sea? You sound nice.

Who said I don’t?? I support many good causes… My business which @BobKowalski

 

[BobKowalski]

They are choosing to take a risk and they are putting trust in criminals to do it. Disrupting the criminals through intelligence and enforcement is one way we can really help. What is happening though is no different to occasions where people have tried to stow themselves into aircraft landing gear on the hope that they survive the journey (the odds are extremely slim!).

Just because people are taking these risks doesn't mean that we have some duty to remove that risk. I'd completely understand if this was Dunkirk and they faced imminent death as has been the case for Ukrainians but that is obviously not true in this case.

France is not a warzone, it's a nice place to live, I'd be half-tempted at the moment to do a swap! If their choice is however has to be the UK then unfortunately that choice comes with risk just as much as choosing to travel the planet to live in Antarctica comes with risk.

The rest of Europe is not doing anything either, they're happy to remain ignorant and pick up people on boats when they arrive and not before.

If we don’t have an obligation to remove the risk, do we have the right to increase the risk by removing all means of safe passage?

If a Govt removes all means of safe passage, then by definition they are encouraging unsafe passage and are complicit in any deaths.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Remind me again as to your extensive expertise on French policy and policing methods.

Is it non-existent or a bit less than that?

There is plenty of footage in the media to suggest that the French make a token effort to prevent migrants getting into boats to attempt their channel crossings.. I never professed to be an expert, perhaps you can tell me when I did so maybe you can tell me, exactly what incentive have the French got to stop the boats and stop these immigrants leaving their soil and becoming another country’s problem?

 

[BobKowalski]

Who said I don’t?? I support many good causes… My business which @BobKowalski

Then you support the RNLI saving lives of asylum seekers who get into difficulty in the Channel. I am heartened to hear you say that. Here’s to them continuing the good work.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

There is plenty of footage in the media to suggest that the French make a token effort to prevent migrants getting into boats to attempt their channel crossings.. I never professed to be an expert, perhaps you can tell me when I did so maybe you can tell me, exactly what incentive have the French got to stop the boats and stop these immigrants leaving their soil and becoming another country’s problem?

I assume we should be critical of Northern Ireland not stopping asylum seekers travelling into Ireland then?

 

[Bluemanc100]

Then you support the RNLI saving lives of asylum seekers who get into difficulty in the Channel. I am heartened to hear you say that. Here’s to them continuing the good work.

It’s a shit sandwich for the volunteers… I don’t believe that they deserve to be put in a position where they have to ferry predominantly economic migrants who leave France voluntarily to try and reach the UK..

 

[BobKowalski]

There is plenty of footage in the media to suggest that the French make a token effort to prevent migrants getting into boats to attempt their channel crossings.. I never professed to be an expert, perhaps you can tell me when I did so maybe you can tell me, exactly what incentive have the French got to stop the boats and stop these immigrants leaving their soil and becoming another country’s problem?

From a House of Commons report assessing 2022.

‘The UK–France Joint Leaders’ Declaration issued in March 2023 states that France prevented 1,381 small boat crossings, carrying 33,788 people, in 2022. This equates to 42.4% of attempts to cross and 55% of small boats being intercepted by the French authorities in 2022.

The UK Government has said that “at least” 59 Organised Crime Groups connected to Channel crossings have been dismantled, and over 500 arrests made, since the foundation of the UK–French Joint Intelligence Cell in July 2020.’

Since then funding has been increased. I would suggest that this is more than a ‘token’ effort and that stopping all crossings is all but impossible and that the French and UK authorities put in a lot of time and effort.

 

[Bluemanc100]

I assume we should be critical of Northern Ireland not stopping asylum seekers travelling into Ireland then?

Perhaps we should… I’m sure that the Irish will find a way to convince these migrants that they’d be better off going back to NI despite the threat of Rwanda..

 

[BobKowalski]

It’s a shit sandwich for the volunteers… I don’t believe that they deserve to be put in a position where they have to ferry predominantly economic migrants who leave France voluntarily to try and reach the UK..

Their job, or duty, is to rescue ‘souls in trouble on the high seas’. Every boat that launches is invariably doing so voluntarily. It is not the RNLI‘s role to question why you are about to drown or assess if you deserve to drown. Much as some, no doubt, would like that to be the case.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Perhaps we should… I’m sure that the Irish will find a way to convince these migrants that they’d be better off going back to NI despite the threat of Rwanda..

They’ll probably process the ones that have travelled there, whilst pass some legislation about strengthening the border into the EU, jeopardising the Good Friday agreement in all likelihood, but it’s difficult to negotiate with the U.K. at the moment as we have toddlers in charge.

 

[mexico1970]

The same suspects blaming the UK for a problem caused by the EU, these migrants entered the EU and then went through the UK to rejoin the UK and for some reason we should have either forced them to stay or helped Ireland to force them over the border against their will.

There's stupid happening on this thread.

 

[MadchesterCity]

.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The same suspects blaming the UK for a problem caused by the EU, these migrants entered the EU and then went through the UK to rejoin the UK and for some reason we should have either forced them to stay or helped Ireland to force them over the border against their will.

There's stupid happening on this thread.

A comparison between how lax the French are at not stopping the boats and Northern Ireland doing the same at their border is more than valid.

You know this, yet you try to frame it in your own special way.

The minute anyone starts with that shit they get closed down, I never initiate talking shit about someone's club but my rudeness after that is on them.

Your MO in life. How to make friends and influence people.

 

[Bluemanc100]

From a House of Commons report assessing 2022.

‘The UK–France Joint Leaders’ Declaration issued in March 2023 states that France prevented 1,381 small boat crossings, carrying 33,788 people, in 2022. This equates to 42.4% of attempts to cross and 55% of small boats being intercepted by the French authorities in 2022.

The UK Government has said that “at least” 59 Organised Crime Groups connected to Channel crossings have been dismantled, and over 500 arrests made, since the foundation of the UK–French Joint Intelligence Cell in July 2020.’

Since then funding has been increased. I would suggest that this is more than a ‘token’ effort and that stopping all crossings is all but impossible and that the French and UK authorities put in a lot of time and effort.

We can’t win unless we find a way to deter the migrants… Rwanda is a preposterous idea in practice but there are surely other, more cost effective ways of making any future migrants think again before making their journey.. There are plenty of ex-RAF camps for example where we could corale asylum seekers for their own safety and ours whilst putting them through some sort of Citizenship training to support their claim for asylum.. use that time to instil our beliefs and principles and give them an educated decision about whether the UK is really for them… If they were genuinely fleeing persecution then surely they’d be up for this..

 

[Bluemanc100]

A Their job, or duty, is to rescue ‘souls in trouble on the high seas’. Every boat that launches is invariably doing so voluntarily. It is not the RNLI‘s role to question why you are about to drown or assess if you deserve to drown. Much as some, no doubt, would like that to be the case.

I agree that it’s their duty to save lives at sea but it was never their raison d'etre to become a migrant transportation service … I’m glad they exist but you could argue that if they didn’t then that would perversely become far more of a deterrent than threats of expulsion to Africa

 

[Bluemanc100]

They’ll probably process the ones that have travelled there, whilst pass some legislation about strengthening the border into the EU, jeopardising the Good Friday agreement in all likelihood, but it’s difficult to negotiate with the U.K. at the moment as we have toddlers in charge.

Agreed

 

[inbetween]

If we don’t have an obligation to remove the risk, do we have the right to increase the risk by removing all means of safe passage?

If a Govt removes all means of safe passage, then by definition they are encouraging unsafe passage and are complicit in any deaths.

It's honestly really hard to argue complicity when a criminal act is taking place.

If I ask a dodgy fella to smuggle me into Europe and it goes wrong then it's my own fault isn't it? You wouldn't say that either country on either side of the water is complicit because they didn't help me to avoid breaking the law....

I can understand an argument on desperation but I don't think that desperation has anything to do with it.

I think that people are coming here purely because that crossing is actually a product sold by criminals. You pay £X and in return you're helped to take a risk and the payoff is a good likelihood of asylum application success, treatment and benefits etc.

The day that 'product' goes sour or something better crops up elsewhere is the day that the crossings will stop.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The same suspects blaming the UK for a problem caused by the EU, these migrants entered the EU and then went through the UK to rejoin the UK and for some reason we should have either forced them to stay or helped Ireland to force them over the border against their will.

There's stupid happening on this thread.

I hear they're nationalising sausages and making them 100% halal...

 

[Vic]

The same suspects blaming the UK for a problem caused by the EU, these migrants entered the EU and then went through the UK to rejoin the UK and for some reason we should have either forced them to stay or helped Ireland to force them over the border against their will.

There's stupid happening on this thread.

Even just in that post.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

You don't have to be a Tory to be worried about who you allow in to the country you should know that Keith.

Chance on Australia

On a dinghy err......... no. With my kids? Err......... no

Plus the accent and spiders

If I've fled a war torn UK I would be much more concerned with thanking the good people of Indonesia rather than thinking of throwing a shrimp on a barbie

But how would we ‘no’, living in such a wonderful world that they can only dream of?

Edit. I don’t really want to interact with people like yourself so will leave the thread to you.