What has the UK become under the far right influence?

as I pointed out in early 2016 and dozens of times since its Brexit. Leaving the EU means we left the Dublin 3 agreement and became a 3rd country. From that point anyone leaving France to come here ceases to be an EU problem so ask yourself this. If - and at the moment its mostly anecdotal - there are refugees moving from NI to ROI - that is in any way different to boat crossings?
If this was the case then do you think that Ireland should put a border post in NI to help asylum seekers to come and apply for asylum in Ireland?

This is precisely what posters are expecting the UK to do albeit in France... ?

Instead of doing that Ireland are changing their laws to ensure that they can send asylum seekers back...
 
These international obligations do not apply until somebody sets foot on UK soil,

This sentence is wrong because this is not the law. The law requires us to give effect to the provisions of the refugee convention with effect from the moment we signed up to the convention, not just from the point at which any given asylum seeker arrives on UK soil. Making it more difficult for someone to claim asylum is not just inhumane - just actually think about about what that involves - it simply contradicts the treaty obligations we undertook in 1951.
 
If this was the case then do you think that Ireland should put a border post in NI to help asylum seekers to come and apply for asylum in Ireland?

This is precisely what posters are expecting the UK to do albeit in France... ?

Instead of doing that Ireland are changing their laws to ensure that they can send asylum seekers back...

Look up the Free Travel Scheme that is between ROI and UK as part of the GFA - that will enable them to do it
 
Whoa!

You need banning off this thread as your views are 'offensive'. 'Negotiation'?? You grifting Put in supporter! I don't care that you said you didn't support his actions! Zelenskyy and wife needs to grace more magazine covers and get more Oscars!
So he wants banning because you don’t agree with his post! Wow not that is democracy.
 
This sentence is wrong because this is not the law. The law requires us to give effect to the provisions of the refugee convention with effect from the moment we signed up to the convention, not just from the point at which any given asylum seeker arrives on UK soil. Making it more difficult for someone to claim asylum is not just inhumane - just actually think about about what that involves - it simply contradicts the treaty obligations we undertook in 1951.
We are not making it more difficult to claim asylum, there is water between us and the rest of Europe which is the only reason why we haven't taken many more, you can't create a land border to fix this. We are not obligated to go beyond our shores to take refugees and no other country is doing this.

We are also not acting inhumanely, this is impossible to argue when the refugees enter the UK from France where they could claim asylum in a safe place.

Norway for example historically has a very strict immigration system and they accepted just 4000 refugees last year, so are Norway now inhumane too? We actually took more than Finland, Sweden, Iceland or Norway so what are we doing differently that is so bad compared to everybody else?

There is an inhumane argument around the Rwanda agreement which I would agree with but that's another thing. I'm talking about our obligation to accept people and not what happens to somebody who has actually made a claim. Personally for anybody who does arrive here I think we should process them as quickly as possible so that they can be released into wild to start a life and hopefully contribute.
 
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The debate on immigration keeps on raging isnt it?

Here is how i reflect on the matter with the question on hand: as it is, the rich will keep on getting richer and more select, some of the middle class will thrive and some will demote and the poor will become poorer and a larger group at that. This is likely a big part of why people feel there is decline, the analysis of why its happening and likely will continue is complex but in making the analysis and looking for solutions its clear to me that "immigration is the distraction". Afcourse there is rational to how immigration can affect economic and social matters, but in reality it is of marginal influence in the state of affairs, however the longer people waste space and time over talking the matter they arnt really examining the complexity of contemporary issue lest to speak explore creative ideas and potential solutions to it, which favors the elite who do influence politics or even set up cute think thanks that validate their most opportune of ideals to imperiously push on us.

Sorry to say, but most of the contemporary debate on politics is daft and besides the point. What we really need is more people writing books that talk about new methods in we can organise our society's or economies that yield better results for those participating, or by extension people who talk about such matters and are willing to step into the unknown. Granted, occupy wall street atleast was a sizable expression of peoples socio-economic concerns, one that seems to have been stamped down with extra vigor i might add.

I cannot else but get the impression that there are "2 Brittains" in that aspect aswell. One that is rich and coasts on the traditions and achievements of the former empire for as long it can, one that is perhaps poor but has a rich cultural identity expressed for a large part trough a vibrant music culture if i can put it in a extreme shorthand way. When you look at Brexit, you can almost see those fault lines along voting blocks. As it is imho, Brexit is a method for the elite class to further its own interest in ways they think they can achieve while being completely callous to the plight of the many to who it would be a detriment. Its almost a consolidation of power sprung at a opportune moment, as if the people in power had only waited long enough to see if they had driven up anti-Eu sentiment in he UK high enough in the polls to do the oh so democratic "once in a lifetime referendum brought to you by the powers that be".
 
Unfortunately the rich shout the loudest they are in positions of power up and down the country. They write the memoirs and books it’s only through education anything will change even then it’s hard to alter opinion
Labour will struggle to reverse the poverty and raise standards for everybody. one term in office won’t change very much and with the loudest voices coming from the rich it’s always going to be that way.
The next GE will be in autumn on a cold and dark day, conservative voters will be out to vote and shouting the loudest to hang on to the wealth they have accumulated, The people at the top want to keep their cash and are out in force this morning the news reporters finding every crumb of comfort for the Tories and Sunak in the re-election of Ben Houchen in Tees valley “cringe” Labour will have to work hard.
 
Unfortunately the rich shout the loudest they are in positions of power up and down the country. They write the memoirs and books it’s only through education anything will change even then it’s hard to alter opinion
Labour will struggle to reverse the poverty and raise standards for everybody. one term in office won’t change very much and with the loudest voices coming from the rich it’s always going to be that way.
The next GE will be in autumn on a cold and dark day, conservative voters will be out to vote and shouting the loudest to hang on to the wealth they have accumulated, The people at the top want to keep their cash and are out in force this morning the news reporters finding every crumb of comfort for the Tories and Sunak in the re-election of Ben Houchen in Tees valley “cringe” Labour will have to work hard.

I dont feel it expedient to wait on some party to come up with a solution to it all, i think the solution is for people to self organize and compete against existing systems where they can according to their own specific values. Stop working for the system, build your own systems and learn what it is to self organize along the way. This also touches in part on education, for while you sure would like the electorate to be smarter and more educated in relevant topics (which can be a discussion on its own) it is too lackluster for common political consciousness to "just vote and leave others to solve it" or hope that this leads to a good enough result.

The thing is, i see plenty of room to self organize systems that can part undermine the excessive power of the economic elite by limiting the demand for their goods, services as well as availability to labor pool. I think there can easily be found plenty of creative solutions as to to do this in a more efficient way with new technologies and solutions than before. But it going to take a lot of mental work as define that all in a practical and detailed way, besides as to get people to work with it. And what it also takes is people who are conscious enough to see the potential gains (even perhaps imperatives) as well as the pitfalls with it. People need to get smarter, but they also need to become experienced with ruling themselves and this doesnt come from day 1 no'r withought errors along the way. Political parties in that sense might have a harder time to this because its hard to do it in a segmented way, they usually need "fit for all" solutions and failures along the way can cost them so there isnt necessarily much space to experiment.

What we really should be talking about in contemporary debate foremost, especially those of lower class of income, is ideas to alternative economic and political organization that yields more value to them and which can be achieved within the current technological and legal framework. We should avoid distractions from this especially if that leads to endless debates and be wary of those who would push those distractions upon us. We can lament the elite as much as we want but as long as we collectively choose so easily to work for and by their systems we supply the fundamental base of their power but realistically that is not one we couldnt take away. In a practical sense those self organizing systems will foremost need to aim at building assets and means of production for such cooperative non-capitalist associations so to build independance from said system and enable to compete against it, and especially with the emergence of automation and the potential effects on employment that would seem rather necessary for working class people to protect their interests towards the future, lest they would be participating at making themselves obsolete for a intrinsically predatory system that will drop them the moment it happens.
 
FlemishDuck saidI don’t feel it expedient to wait on some party to come up with a solution to it all, i think the solution is for people to self organize and compete against existing systems where they can according to their own specific values. Stop working for the system, build your own systems and learn what it is to self organize along the way. This also touches in part on education, for while you sure would like the electorate to be smarter and more educated in relevant topics (which can be a discussion on its own) it is too lackluster for common political consciousness to "just vote and leave others to solve it" or hope that this leads to a good enough result

In an ideal world people would come up with their own solutions, with education they do find their way out of poverty.
Unfortunately there is an ever growing underclass that only survive on charity, to busy trying to live a life, hand to mouth they can’t access education and that’s where the state has to pick up the pieces if only the underclass would vote we might restore some of the benefits of living in a society that cared
 
Unfortunately the rich shout the loudest they are in positions of power up and down the country.

Hence Tice who's Ltd Company now has 2 councillors and Farage - never elected to Parliament despite keeping trying are all over the telly whereas the Greens who tonight are on +65 councillors total 169 and have one MP are shunned by all channels
 
Hence Tice who's Ltd Company now has 2 councillors and Farage - never elected to Parliament despite keeping trying are all over the telly whereas the Greens who tonight are on +65 councillors total 169 and have one MP are shunned by all channels
We switched the TV off after Sunak was portrayed in Tee’s valley as a victorious winner going round greeting the party faithful, caring about the environment won’t be at the top of Sunaks agenda The Green Party should get its fair share of representation by the Media but they will be ignored
 
Hence Tice who's Ltd Company now has 2 councillors and Farage - never elected to Parliament despite keeping trying are all over the telly whereas the Greens who tonight are on +65 councillors total 169 and have one MP are shunned by all channels
The media like extremists.

Radcliffe First now have three councillors in Bury. Haven't got a clue what their main objectives are but it seems clear the population aren't enamoured with the main parties, or have been hoodwinked by this mob.
 
The media like extremists.

Radcliffe First now have three councillors in Bury. Haven't got a clue what their main objectives are but it seems clear the population aren't enamoured with the main parties, or have been hoodwinked by this mob.
Hmmm?
I know the RF councillors and the work they have done in the last 3 years. They have been out and about in the community and actually listen to the populus which, given all the other parties have been conspicuous by their absence, has made them quite popular
 

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