PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[FanchesterCity]

In terms of mancini, these are the alleged rules that were broken:
In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8;

This looks like there was some rule in place at the time about showing full manager renumeration.
I'll try and find what q7 and q8 actually say.

The commonly held view is that Mancini was paid 'on the side' via a deal to provide consulting services to another company.
However any manager can do a bit of work on the side and the details of the 3rd party contracts are unknown to the club.
Even if they are known and deemed 'relevant' they are not contracts formed by the club therefore the word 'its' is a problem for our accusers.
If the PL still believe that any club who is even aware of a 3rd party contract should declare that knowledge it is still unrealistic to assume they know the remuneration details or other particulars.


Imagine a manager having a contract with a newspaper to write a column. That contract states they will receive between 500k and 800k depending on subscriber figures and that the pay will increase between 5% and 10% per annum based on company and personal performance...

How are the PL going to determine his pay? Do they expect to see the managers personal bank account or the newspaper accounts?

 

[1961_vintage]

Has tolmie had a good record on transfer info in recent years? Trying to work out how much I trust his info on the case.

Not bad, but he's no @kiam06

 

[halfcenturyup]

Good summary thank you.
Re Fordham - it maybe very uncomfortable ground for the PL to sanction City on the basis that there are other PL clubs who were operating similar schemes which the HMRC took a much more negative view of. City were not fined by HMRC - so City’s lawyers will almost certainly call that out as unreasonable - if they are not investigating or charging Newcastle or the Rags.

The thing with the image rights allegations is that we don't know for sure to what it relates.

It may relate to Fordham, in which case I think the PL's allegations would be about revenue recorded in 2012/13 (in their view wrongly) and expenses not "recorded" in subsequent years (in their view wrongly). But I do think Fordham was an arrangement unique to City. Other clubs I think entered into arrangements to structure individual players' images rights in a fiscally convenient manner. City may also have done this for players not part of Fordham and cleared it with HMRC, but I think Fordham itself is something else.

Or it may relate to Yaya Toure as some press have suggested, in which case I have no idea what is going on :)

In any case, the seasons covered by the player contract allegations start in 2010/11 (well before Fordham started, and actually when Toure started) and end in 2015/16 (well before the investigation started). What it all means, I have no idea. :D

If you have any thoughts, let me know.

 

[halfcenturyup]

The commonly held view is that Mancini was paid 'on the side' via a deal to provide consulting services to another company.
However any manager can do a bit of work on the side and the details of the 3rd party contracts are unknown to the club.
Even if they are known and deemed 'relevant' they are not contracts formed by the club therefore the word 'its' is a problem for our accusers.
If the PL still believe that any club who is even aware of a 3rd party contract should declare that knowledge it is still unrealistic to assume they know the remuneration details or other particulars.


Imagine a manager having a contract with a newspaper to write a column. That contract states they will receive between 500k and 800k depending on subscriber figures and that the pay will increase between 5% and 10% per annum based on company and personal performance...

How are the PL going to determine his pay? Do they expect to see the managers personal bank account or the newspaper accounts?

Edit: This is from the current handbook to show how the PL expects external remuneration to be reported.

There was no such requirement in the rules when Mancini was here.

 

[Sid Snott]

View attachment 119276

Was Mancini City "manager" or was he City "first team COACH"
It's a play on words Wilson.

 

[hammocity]

I remember listening to Ornstein on a podcast about 4 years ago and he said ‘my information is that Pep will leave at the end of the season’ few weeks later he signed a new contract.

He's a smug arrogant **** when he's on the Back Page slot on SSN, I reckon he's one of those who wears stockings and suspenders underneath his Farrah's, slimy fucker.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I’ve had a good look through your post history and the vast majority of your posts are negative about City and City fans.

This classic included:

View attachment 119271
You talk utter shite and tbh, I’m doubting if you even support City. Something stinks about your posts - they drip with insincerity and I don’t think it’s a coincidence you turned up when the charges dropped.

Of course he’s not a blue, jeez, can’t have taken you that long surely?

 

[South Stand Balti]

It’s gone for me what does it say pls?

It says Masters is about to lose his job, but he isn't.

 

[dave_blue12]

If this is true, it's interesting that, whilst he isn't welcome at City, he's very welcome at arsenal.

Arsenal are part of the cartel on behalf of whom Masters is acting.

He will be welcome there as long as he continues to be useful.

 

[BlueRockape]

Arsenal are part of the cartel on behalf of whom Masters is acting.

He will be welcome there as long as he continues to be useful.

The Everton fans will give him some shit

 

[bluemoon32]

So, are we dooooooooooooooooooomed or not ?

 

[DrBlueBob]

I'd want to see the evidence before directing my anger. If this has been instigated by the usual suspects then I'd be angry at those suspects and at the spineless bastards at the Premier League who are simply puppets for the cartel clubs.
I'd only be angry at City's owners and senior management if the rules were fairly introduced, fairly implemented and we knew we were sailing close to the wind. But I was at Southampton when Jesus secured 100 points, and at Brighton 12 months later when we came from a goal down to win 4-1 and make Scousers cry, and at the Etihad when we collected the trophy and beat Everton 5-0 as football returned after covid, and 12 months later when we came from two down to beat Villa, and last season when we picked up the trophy with a couple of games to go. - And I'll be there on Sunday when we play West Ham.
I was also there for the four League Cup finals under Pep and the FA Cup finals and the CL finals. And for most games under Mancini and Pellers. - They can't take away my memories whatever the outcome of this witch-hunt.
And I've renewed my ST so I'm stuck with the buggers anyway.

Bloody JCL.
:-)

 

[halfcenturyup]

Was Mancini City "manager" or was he City "first team COACH"
It's a play on words Wilson.

You made me look this up :)



No definition for Coach.

 

[slbsn]

View attachment 119276

The current Handbook is not relevant. The 2012/13 set of rules are the most extensive that City would need to consider in respect of Mancini. Much harder to prove any breach of these rules:

 

[Prophet of Doom]

Arsenal are part of the cartel on behalf of whom Masters is acting.

He will be welcome there as long as he continues to be useful.

I’m quite sure Arsenal think it’s all going to plan with an Autumn hearing of the IC.

David Ornstein repeated this again yesterday on a Q&A - and he is defo the most reliable journo with very strong Arsenal connections to Arsenal.

Somebody is getting it dead wrong in the current position - whether it’s the journos or our ITKs - we won’t know for a few weeks hopefully when we hear the case has fallen apart during the euros.

Masters knows it would be a cauldron abuse if he turns up at City. But if he hasn’t got the balls to show his face he shouldn’t be in the job.

 

[Centurions]

I’m quite sure Arsenal think it’s all going to plan with an Autumn hearing of the IC.

David Ornstein repeated this again yesterday on a Q&A - and he is defo the most reliable journo with very strong Arsenal connections to Arsenal.

Somebody is getting it dead wrong in the current position - whether it’s the journos or our ITKs - we won’t know for a few weeks hopefully when we hear the case has fallen apart during the euros.

Masters knows it would be a cauldron abuse if he turns up at City. But if he hasn’t got the balls to show his face he shouldn’t be in the job.

I can't see Masters not being there myself, that said he's not going to enjoy it (again).

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I believe he gets good lines of club gossip some is pretty spot on some is way off the mark

Good summary thank you.
Re Fordham - it maybe very uncomfortable ground for the PL to sanction City on the basis that there are other PL clubs who were operating similar schemes which the HMRC took a much more negative view of. City were not fined by HMRC - so City’s lawyers will almost certainly call that out as unreasonable - if they are not investigating or charging Newcastle or the Rags.

All top players had image right deals at the time as a way of legally reducing their tax bills. Perhaps the way Fordham was set up is the issue or perhaps City were just singled out as they have been from day one.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I’m quite sure Arsenal think it’s all going to plan with an Autumn hearing of the IC.

David Ornstein repeated this again yesterday on a Q&A - and he is defo the most reliable journo with very strong Arsenal connections to Arsenal.

Somebody is getting it dead wrong in the current position - whether it’s the journos or our ITKs - we won’t know for a few weeks hopefully when we hear the case has fallen apart during the euros.

Masters knows it would be a cauldron abuse if he turns up at City. But if he hasn’t got the balls to show his face he shouldn’t be in the job.

Masters knows he is finished.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Masters not coming to the Etihad tomorrow, going to Arsenal instead haha.

What a coward.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

I believe he gets good lines of club gossip some is pretty spot on some is way off the mark

In my opinion most of the gossip he posts is coming from connections with agents or newspaper pals that have agent connections.

His insights seem to focus on certain players. He’s had chapter and verse on the Paqueta deal - and bizarrely was giving daily insights on youth player Kian Brechin recently - a player that will never play a minute for City and couldn’t get a game out on loan.

Has been good for transfer info down the years and good fun with music vids but I dont believe that legal letters went out and won’t be getting carried away about the case collapsing until we find out.