US Politics Thread

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I’m not sure which is scarier…that you jump straight to “he’s a racist!” OR that you went back to a post from TEN FUCKING YEARS AGO to justify your sentiments?

Get a hobby!

It's not jumping straight to he's a racist. I know he's a racist from several discussions I've had with him over several years. I used to think he was amusing, wasn't really serious about most of his views and wasn't actually as unhinged and repugnant as is now evident. The Halal reference was to a completely OTT and irrational reaction to changes to a child's school lunch menu.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of someone going around using exactly the same words "Jew haters", "terrorist sympathisers" etc he took offence to in the exact same subject when he sat on the opposite side of the debate that he now presents himself.

It's highly amusing.
 
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So you can categorically say this is bull shit my friend?
There were terrorist, religious extremist. When terrorist attack happend, people died, and many of victims, are ughyurs! Those are the SAME terrorist you western people never want to have in your country! Even Afghanistan Taliban promise "no one can use the land of Afghanistan to lanch a terroist attack to China", what they refer to is the ones you saw in the video. They looked peaceful in the interview ,but they are not ! They are terrorist!
 
What's the point we differ totally on the conflict. You think the Palistinians are fair game to slaughter, I don't.
Such ridiculous hyperbole is an excellent discussion ender…and yet people wonder?!

The world is a complicated place and war is hell. Rarely does the non-combatant population survive unscathed, and we can certainly debate the sliding scale of “acceptable losses,” given ANY LOSS OF LIFE is completely undesirable, but with comments such as yours puts any discussion to bed.
 
There were terrorist, religious extremist. When terrorist attack happend, people died, and many of victims, are ughyurs! Those are the SAME terrorist you western people never want to have in your country! Even Afghanistan Taliban promise "no one can use the land of Afghanistan to lanch a terroist attack to China", what they refer to is the ones you saw in the video. They looked peaceful in the interview ,but they are not ! They are terrorist!
Every Muslim is a terrorist..?
I see pluralism is alive and kicking in the PRC....
Anyway it's a US politics thread my friend
 
There were terrorist, religious extremist. When terrorist attack happend, people died, and many of victims, are ughyurs! Those are the SAME terrorist you western people never want to have in your country! Even Afghanistan Taliban promise "no one can use the land of Afghanistan to lanch a terroist attack to China", what they refer to is the ones you saw in the video. They looked peaceful in the interview ,but they are not ! They are terrorist!

Blink twice if the Tiananmen Square massacre happened.
 
Every Muslim is a terrorist..?
I see pluralism is alive and kicking in the PRC....
Anyway it's a US politics thread my friend
That is the problem, not every muslim is a terrorist.
Only a small group.
There are 12 million uyghurs, and 13 million "hui" ethnic who are muslims.
It's the western media, they are trying to give you an impression that "China put every uyghurs or mulisms into prison or some camps".
And right now, King of Bahrain, President of Tunisia, President of Egypt, President of the United Arab Emirates,they are all in Beijing!
If we really have "genocide", if we really have problems with muslims, why are they here?
The US politics has a big problem with propaganda, those news-outlets lie to people. If American people really care about their demorcracy, they should do something.
 
That is the problem, not every muslim is a terrorist.
Only a small group.
There are 12 million uyghurs, and 13 million "hui" ethnic who are muslims.
It's the western media, they are trying to give you an impression that "China put every uyghurs or mulisms into prison or some camps".
And right now, King of Bahrain, President of Tunisia, President of Egypt, President of the United Arab Emirates,they are all in Beijing!
If we really have "genocide", if we really have problems with muslims, why are they here?
The US politics has a big problem with propaganda, those news-outlets lie to people. If American people really care about their demorcracy, they should do something.
CCTV ..along with RT are just state run propaganda channels with absolutely NO alternative viewpoint
Yep they should start by keeping Trump out of the White House
I'm outta here my friend because as we say in the north of England "I'm pissing in the wind"
 
CCTV ..along with RT are just state run propaganda channels with absolutely NO alternative viewpoint
Yep they should start by keeping Trump out of the White House
I'm outta here my friend because as we say in the north of England "I'm pissing in the wind"
Yeah, I feel the same.
 
God help us. A free speech gauleiter. They used to be called Stasi.
Instead of throwing insults about, let's please engage in conversation... and if you still disagree with me after reading the following... debate.

That said...

Free speech is extremely important. Individuals must have the right to free discourse otherwise we creep into totalitarian regimes.

At the same time, completely unrestricted free speech is clearly undesirable. For example, you can't shout, "Fire!," in a crowded theater when no fire is present. And drawing from current political events... gag orders are sometimes placed on individuals to prevent them from intimidating jurors. Free speech cannot be an absolute right regardless of what's said.

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously stated, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

And yet, here we are in the 21st century, where, currently, you are entitled to your own facts without even necessarily knowing that what you think to be facts are, actually, not factual.
===
Perhaps my previous posts conflated two matters with regard to public statements. That of attribution. And that of fact.

With regard to attribution - I think it's going to get worse and worse due to AI. AI will shortly advance to the point where it will be possible to create fake videos showing anyone whatsoever voicing anything whatsoever you desire to be said. And social media - including foreign actors inimical to current governance - will amplify such posts - and indeed will create them.

I don't think, though, that this will be a major problem. Because, within a few years, videos will be digitally signed, proving their source (this is inevitable). And such digital signatures can be made safe even from quantum computing. In future, you'll know for sure, where posts originate, and can disregard posts from sources you don't trust.
===
Yet, there remains the matter of factual posts, versus completely made up content.

And this brings me back to the Daniel Patrick Moynihan quotation. "... you are not entitled to your own facts."

What does this mean or imply?

As I've argued above, free speech is currently too free. There's far too little curb for telling outright lies. If it's a crime to yell, "Fire!," in a crowded theater that's not actually on fire... because in the rush to exit, people may well die, perhaps even 10s or possibly 100s of people, then why doesn't some sort of curb exist against, for example, claiming that covid isn't real, it's make believe, or that covid vaccination is unnecessary because you can simply take ivermectin if infected to cure yourself, even if this may result in thousands or millions of unnecessary deaths - orders of magnitude worse than shouting, "Fire!," in a theater.

The "yelling fire" versus "covid vaccinations are unnecessary" argument I've posed doesn't precisely overlap...

In fact, I think that you should be free to express doubt in covid vaccination, provided that your expression of doubt can be flagged as running counter to accepted science/medical opinion.

Granted... it's going to be complicated as hell to update free speech laws to the 21st century... but I think it's doable. But if it's not doable, then we're fucked... because you will be entitled to your own facts.
 
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Instead of throwing insults about, let's please engage in conversation... and if you still disagree with me after reading the following.. debate.

That said...

Free speech is extremely important. Individuals must have the right to free discourse otherwise we creep into totalitarian regimes.

At the same time, completely unrestricted free speech is clearly undesirable. For example, you can't shout, "Fire!," in a crowded theater when no fire is present. And drawing from current political events... gag orders are sometimes placed on individuals to prevent them from intimidating jurors...

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously stated, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

And yet, here we are in the 21st century, where, currently, you are entitled to your own facts without even necessarily knowing that what you think to be facts are, actually, not factual.
===
Perhaps my previous posts conflated two matters with regard to public statements. That of attribution. And that of fact.

With regard to attribution - I think it's going to get worse and worse due to AI. AI will shortly advance to the point where it will be possible to create fake videos showing anyone whatsoever voicing anything whatsoever you desire to be said. And social media - including foreign actors on social media - will amplify such posts - and indeed will create them.

I don't think, though, that this will be a major problem. Because, within a few years, videos will be digitally signed, proving their source. And such digital signatures can be made safe even from quantum computing. In future, you'll know for sure, where posts originate, and can disregard posts from sources you don't trust.
===
Yet, there remains the matter of factual posts, versus completely made up content.

And this brings me back to the Daniel Patrick Moynihan quotation. "... you are not entitled to your own facts."

But what does this mean or imply?

As I've argued above, free speech is currently too free. There's far too little curb for telling outright lies. If it's a crime to yell, "Fire!," in a crowded theater that's not actually on fire... because in the rush to exit, people may well die, perhaps even 10s or possibly 100s of people, then why doesn't some sort of curb exist to, for example, claim that covid isn't real, it's make believe, or that covid vaccination is unnecessary because you can simply take ivermectin if infected to cure yourself, even if this may result in thousands or millions of unnecessary deaths - orders of magnitude worse than shouting, "Fire!"

The "yelling fire" versus "covid vaccinations are unnecessary" argument I've posed doesn't precisely overlap... I think that you should be free to express doubt in covid vaccination, provided that your expression of doubt can be flagged as running counter to accepted science/medical opinion.

Granted... it's going to be complicated as hell to update free speech laws to the 21st century... but I think it's doable. But if it's not doable, then we're fucked... because you will be entitled to your own facts.
Sorry, this is nonsense and doesn’t even address the remark I made. I have no wish to debate somebody who advocates appointing a speech overlord. Cheers.
 
Sorry, this is nonsense and doesn’t even address the remark I made. I have no wish to debate somebody who advocates appointing a speech overlord. Cheers.
Then, without meaning to insult, I think you're naive, on this matter, or, perhaps you completely misunderstand me.

I don't advocate "a" free speech "overlord."

Nor do I argue that you can't, in almost every instance, say what you want.

I'm simply arguing that some few posts should be flagged as running counter to accepted thought/science in cases where such posts will lead to clear societal harm... this is already occurring on some social media platforms to even greater extent than I propose - albeit in a completely self-serving, ad-hoc manner.

I advocate that you are free to say what you want in almost every instance. In extant examples where such speech is clearly detrimental to society, then, such speech should continue to be outlawed. But new... and required... I think... is labeling of posts that run completely counter to science and fact as being questionable. You can still post such claims, but such posts should be flagged.

We're in the 21st century with new technologies that enable free communication in ways that are entirely novel and foreign to previous law making. And that similarly pose new challenges to societal well being.

How does one decide what is questionable/counter to science and what is not? How does society choose the members of an organization that flags potentially harmful posts, to ensure that they're neutral in terms of politics and are free from corruption? The devil is in the details. And yet I think it can be done.

Or perhaps you are of the opinion that it's OK to yell, "Fire!," in that crowded theater?

Or less provocatively... perhaps you're of the opinion that 20th century laws regarding free speech are all that's needed in the 21st century.
 
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The Dems have really got to start seriously exposing this "Project 2025" abomination.
Day and night, 24/7
Fucking frightening
They should belittle him at every opportunity. Turn the TV debate next week into a roast.

He will explode on live TV.
 
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Then, without meaning to insult, I think you're naive, on this matter, or, perhaps you completely misunderstand me.

I don't advocate "a" free speech "overlord."

Nor do I argue that you can't, in almost every instance, say what you want.

I'm simply arguing that some few posts should be flagged as running counter to accepted thought/science in cases where such posts will lead to clear societal harm... this is already occurring on some social media platforms to even greater extent than I propose - albeit in a completely self-serving, ad-hoc manner.

I advocate that you are free to say what you want in almost every instance. In extant examples where such speech is clearly detrimental to society, then, such speech should continue to be outlawed. But new... and required... I think... is labeling of posts that run completely counter to science and fact as being questionable. You can still post such claims, but such posts should be flagged.

We're in the 21st century with new technologies that enable free communication in ways that are entirely novel and foreign to previous law making. And that similarly pose new challenges to societal well being.

How does one decide what is questionable/counter to science and what is not? How does society choose the members of an organization that flags potentially harmful posts, to ensure that they're neutral in terms of politics and are free from corruption? The devil is in the details. And yet I think it can be done.

Or perhaps you are of the opinion that it's OK to yell, "Fire!," in that crowded theater?

Or less provocatively... perhaps you're of the opinion that 20th century laws regarding free speech are all that's needed in the 21st century.
You clearly have no understanding of the implications of the policy you suggest. Who decides whether something gets the seal of approval? (Especially if there is no overlord) What are the criteria?
Here’s a partial list of people who tried to regulate free speech: Hitler, Stalin, The Unamerican Activities Committee, Pol Pot, Putin.
All those gentlemen are 20th century, Name some democratic leaders who tried to regulate free speech in the C20th.
PS You’re in the wrong thread. .
 
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