President Trump

TinFoilHat said:
@Bigga cannot answer that as I believe he's been banned from this thread for having the audacity of having a different view.

Surely more views weather we agree or dissent with him helps with healthy debate. As long as the people discussing it see it that way and don't get personal whatever they are debating.

The barn and muffin debate almost led to a war.
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Didn't know he had been banned and he pm'd thanks
 
mexico1970 said:
When posters believe that just because another poster doesn't believe what they do they must be wumming, is where the problems start and echo chambers begin.
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Been there for a long time. Penny dropped with me around the election. It's never going to stop. People are always always going to disagree, and I will always get offended. Best just ignore it.

I better fucking relearn how, says I. Because I am not nearly as effective a debater or arguer as I was twenty years ago.

Found this useful in avoiding letting emotions and knee jerks get the better of me.

constantrenewal.com

The Steel Man Technique: How To Argue Better And Be More Persuasive

The steel man is the opposite of the straw man. It's being charitable, and building up the best possible form of the argument for the other side.
constantrenewal.com constantrenewal.com

"People want to have their thoughts taken seriously and not brushed aside."

Yeah, and if they do it to you, and you're too proud to admit it hurts that you can be dismissed - it can be an easy win for them. You can't plead good faith if you aren't legitimately making the effort to listen and recognise them.
 
Ptolemy's Hairdo said:
Been there for a long time. Penny dropped with me around the election. It's never going to stop. People are always always going to disagree, and I will always get offended. Best just ignore it.

I better fucking relearn how, says I. Because I am not nearly as effective a debater or arguer as I was twenty years ago.

Found this useful in avoiding letting emotions and knee jerks get the better of me.

constantrenewal.com

The Steel Man Technique: How To Argue Better And Be More Persuasive

The steel man is the opposite of the straw man. It's being charitable, and building up the best possible form of the argument for the other side.
constantrenewal.com constantrenewal.com

"People want to have their thoughts taken seriously and not brushed aside."

Yeah, and if they do it to you, and you're too proud to admit it hurts that you can be dismissed - it can be an easy win for them. You can't plead good faith if you aren't legitimately making the effort to listen and recognise them.
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Thank you for the article link.

Very Insightful
 
TinFoilHat said:
@Bigga cannot answer that as I believe he's been banned from this thread for having the audacity of having a different view.

Surely more views weather we agree or dissent with him helps with healthy debate. As long as the people discussing it see it that way and don't get personal whatever they are debating.

The barn and muffin debate almost led to a war.
Click to expand...
I’ve no idea if Bigga is or isn’t banned and am not particularly bothered either way but I will say that IF he is banned, it will not be for having “a different view”.
 
TinFoilHat said:
@Bigga cannot answer that as I believe he's been banned from this thread for having the audacity of having a different view.

Surely more views weather we agree or dissent with him helps with healthy debate. As long as the people discussing it see it that way and don't get personal whatever they are debating.

The barn and muffin debate almost led to a war.
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The battle of Chorlton on Medlock settled the barm wars. 1865.
I wouldn’t ban anyone for having a different view but that member was in the habit of telling lies about people who disagreed with him. I think he was a Trumpite in disguise. Sauce for the goose.
 
TinFoilHat said:
He isn't.

Hence the hush money court case he's trying to get thrown out thanks to his mates on SCOTUS arguing the payments were official acts therefore he's immune.
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How come there are so many reports saying that he is using campaign funds for his legal cases and has been for a long time?

www.brennancenter.org

Trump’s Use of Campaign Funds to Pay Legal Bills

Thanks to loopholes and lax enforcement, former president Trump is using campaign funds to pay almost all of his legal bills.
www.brennancenter.org www.brennancenter.org

www.nbcnews.com

More than $27M in Trump campaign fundraising went to legal costs in the last six months of 2023

The former president was indicted four times last year and has also had to answer civil lawsuits targeting his business and him as an individual.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
He has achieved a complete takeover of that country in less than 10 years. Every branch of govt and authority including the judiciary now. Not even the FBI can touch him. Hes got the judiciary with the supreme court, and hes got congress, and anyone else that could possibly ever hold him to account. It is a total ownership and so by definition it will be a dictatorship, it cant be anything else. Ive never seen anything like it
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
He has achieved a complete takeover of that country in less than 10 years. Every branch of govt and authority including the judiciary now. Not even the FBI can touch him. Hes got the judiciary with the supreme court, and hes got congress, and anyone else that could possibly ever hold him to account. It is a total ownership and so by definition it will be a dictatorship, it cant be anything else. Ive never seen anything like it
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he’s not been able to do that on his own, people behind the scenes.
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
He has achieved a complete takeover of that country in less than 10 years. Every branch of govt and authority including the judiciary now. Not even the FBI can touch him. Hes got the judiciary with the supreme court, and hes got congress, and anyone else that could possibly ever hold him to account. It is a total ownership and so by definition it will be a dictatorship, it cant be anything else. Ive never seen anything like it
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It’s a slow motion putsch for which the end game can only be delayed with a Democrat winning the presidency. Nothing can be done about SCOTUS without a Dem senate supermajority and that isn’t possible with the states that are up for election this year. It’s a grim situation and one the rest of the world needs to seriously plan for.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
For the purpose of the election of the President (see Donald Trump thread!) it is not a democracy, it is a republic, such that the last few Republican Presidents have been elected by a significant MINORITY of the votes, but passed the threshold 270 Electoral College votes.

My local Congressman and Senators ARE elected in democratic votes, though, but they belong to a different Branch of Government than the Orange Clown under discussion.

Again, this is because the Founding Fathers, looking out across their sparsely populated new States, did not want the highly populous State of Virginia to dominate their politics and crown a powerful “King” so soon after fighting a war to free themselves from one.

Local elections: democratic
National election: more of a republic
The “democratic process” of governance, certainly more republican in nature.
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I agree with your post insofar as it goes.

On the other hand, the average American citizen isn't as sophisticated as you are. When they hear that "America isn't a Democracy"... the conclusion is that governance in America has nothing to do with the will of the people.

My primary objection to your stance is that the American far Right have seized upon the "America isn't a Democracy" position to promote numerous talking points. For example:
* America isn't a Democracy. So why support Ukraine? We have nothing in common;
* America isn't a Democracy. So why isn't a strong man in the ilk of Viktor Orban desirable? Clearly this is better, since a strong man president could implement policies unhindered by bureaucracy, congress and the courts;
* America isn't a Democracy. So voting and consideration of the majority doesn't matter. And even if voting were desirable, voting is rigged against the Right and thus is not to be trusted.

My second objection to the "American isn't a Democracy" stance, is that it smacks of pedantry.
 
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Shots fired at a Trump rally in Pennsylvania while he was on stage.
Trump definitely puts a hand to his ear (as if being nicked?) before ducking and the Secret Service piling in.
Also reported that he was seen being hustled to a car afterwards.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Shots fired at a Trump rally in Pennsylvania while he was on stage.
Trump definitely puts a hand to his ear (as if being nicked?) before ducking and the Secret Service piling in.
Also reported that he was seen being hustled to a car afterwards.
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He needs to shut up about pulling out of NATO and abandoning Ukraine or there will be a lot of billionaires/ arms dealers wanting him dead.
 
Curious that the BBC have the footage at the time, not just the bit on Twitter in the aftermath.
Some belief that the shots came from outside the (outdoor) venue.
 
NRA - "If everyone in the audience had a gun, they could have prevented this"
 
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