mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
Come on Chippy, it's well known you hate Labour but I thought you were better than that.
The Labour Government
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Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No mate, he CLEARLY influenced them. I think he was in his element actually, former DPP etc. He presumably knows how the system works, inside out, and knows who to put calls into.
There can be no other explanation for some of the sentences. Middle aged woman with no prior convictions getting 15 months prison time for a since-deleted tweet? Now come on, that's unprecedented. There are plenty of other examples. Why do you think ALL the courts were deeming no release on bail for anyone charged. Hence so many guilty pleas from people who on face value should or could have pled not guilty. They were told they would be held on remand for longer than their sentences. This was not all independent conclusions of courts, clearly. Why would you not let someone who has only made a facebook post, out on bail pending trial?
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mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
And what if he did, the riots have been quelled and bad guys are serving time, win win
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Haha. I was shocked mate. Upstanding citizens that they are.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No-one objects to sending violent rioters to prison, of course. But there are other aspects to this as I listed above, which I am quite concerned about.
It seems to me he is trying to supress any protest or objection to mass migration, instead trying to pretend that there's only a tiny minority of right wing thugs who are concerned about it. The question is why would he do that? Why would he not - like he did with the Black Lives Matter riots - say he would meet with community leaders to understand their concerns etc. He's done none of that.
My suspicion is that it is because as a strong europhile and Remainer, he is actually pro-freedom of movement and not really planning or expecting to reduce legal migration much at all. And he doesn't want a huge backlash when hundreds of thousands are reported as entering the country every year. So make people afraid of posting about it.
I would not be at all surprised if he is secretly planning on agreeing to limited free movement for the under 30's. He denies it of course, for now. We will see.
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metalblue
Well-Known Member
Likewise mate.
Best thing about COVID furlough thing for the self employed was how all those that had fiddled their books got very little as they’d said they’d earned so little over the years. Poetic justice and all that.
Churchlawtonblue
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The judiciary needs to be fully independent of political influence in any democracy. I am sure you agree with that Mossi?
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
But aren't your concerns based on your perceptions rather than facts?
The perfect fumble
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You believe this because it chimes in with your politics. We've always had two tier policing, one for the rich and one for the poor, I don't recall you complaining too much about that.
What we have here is not two tier policing, but a policy decision by the police to view the race rioters as perpetrators and the "Muslim gangs" as victims, those kind of distinctions have been made by coppers since the days they were actually paid in coppers.
What vexes you is you don't agree with the distinction here.
I urge you to watch this, it's hard to find two people you equally despise slugging it out, but it's John McTernan saying the quiet part out loud that has had my wife and I talking about it....
At the core of this debate, the debate no one ever has, is nativism.....
Nativism
Political ideology
Description
Nativism is the political policy of promoting or protecting the interests of native-born or indigenous people over those of immigrants, including the support of anti-immigration and immigration-restriction measures.............
if you believe in nativism, as you clearly do, then what has happened with these riots is slam dunk two tier policing directed by Starmer.
If you don't believe in it, as McTernan doesn't, then this is a clear cut case of racist perpetrators versus victims.
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
I never said it was or wasn't fully independent. My point was we don't know whether Starmer leant on it
west didsblue
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Sounds like you’ve been listening to Farage and believing him.
You must have missed Sameer Ali and Adnan Ghafoor being sentenced to 20 and 18 months respectively. They were the first counter-protesters to be locked up. I’m sure there’s plenty more if I could be arsed to look it up.
Postman Pep
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2 years and 160K later ....
No idea
First reported 4 years ago by Matt Kennard of Declassified....... so it's about as old as this story. Tories being corrupt who knew?
Now for real corruption, you know where to look.
Robert Jenrick: What did housing secretary do and why are there calls for him to quit?
Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick is facing calls to resign over his role in a controversial project proposed by Richard Desmond.news.sky.com
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Interesting, I will watch it. Thanks.
Actually though, I am somewhat of a neurtal bystander in this, not a nativist at all. I am fortunate to live in a leafy suburb where there is total social cohesion because everyone is middle class white British. You don't see a non-white face around here, so this whole question was until a few weeks ago, something I never gave a moments thought to. To be clear, I am not saying White British is a solution, merely reflecting that IS the demographic where I live, so no-one ever gives multi-racial social cohesion a passing thought.
Anyway, there's a guy on Youtube - Paul Walsh - who is/was a watch dealer and as I am interested in watches, so I used to watch his channel. But over recent months he's been getting seemingly more and more "racist", which I was finding a big turn off. I even contemplated emailing him to say he needs to give his head a wobble because the problems he kept banging on about do not exist.
But gradually, I have started to realise he has a point. I have come to realise that there are large parts of the country where all is not harmonious. In particular, there are large numbers of Islamists who would if they could, introduce Sharia law. There is clearly a problem is some parts of the country, and not talking about it, is not the solution.
Churchlawtonblue
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You actually said, so what if he did? Implying it didn't matter? Or did I read that incorrectly?
As regards your last point, I agree we will never know for sure, but it is reasonable to assume that he or someone in government has, as the sentances are extremely harsh compared to other sentencing crimes.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
There have been 'religious courts'' in the UK for years
London Beth Din | Court of the Chief Rabbi | United Kingdom
The London Beth Din is one of Europe’s premier halachic authorities and is the Court of the Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth
www.bethdin.org.uk
But for some reason courts associated with people with brown skin are a problem for you?
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
So you're suggesting we've had even-handed policing and sentencing? If so, I think you are mistaken.
I am sure we can both find isolated examples on either side, but the question is not about isolated examples, it is about the situation as a whole.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No, I have a problem witH ALL religious courts. I didn't know there were any actually!There have been 'religious courts'' in the UK for years
London Beth Din | Court of the Chief Rabbi | United Kingdom
The London Beth Din is one of Europe’s premier halachic authorities and is the Court of the Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth
But for some reason courts associated with people with brown skin are a problem for you?
We should have 1 law here, The Law of England and Wales. Full stop. Do you know what Sharia Law is, and the various punishments applicable under it!??!!?!
For a handful of specific crimes, the punishment is fixed (ḥadd): death for apostasy, amputation of the hand for theft and of the hand and foot for highway robbery, death by stoning for extramarital sexual relations (zinā) when the offender is married and 100 lashes when the offender is unmarried, and 80 lashes for an unproved accusation of unchastity (qadhf) and for the drinking of any intoxicant.
You're OK with this are you?
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
I think you read it incorrectly.
Reasonable to assume is not guilt though is it?
The perfect fumble
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Then McTernan would see you as the problem, your inability to come to terms with 21st Century multi ethnic, multi faith Britain. In McTernan's multi cultural Britain Sharia law is not a problem, what does it threaten? Mainstream British culture and values? With multiculturalism there is no such thing as mainstream British culture and values, just a potpourri of different cultures, mingling, interacting, evolving, nothing is under threat because there's nothing to threaten.
Labour will not "solve" the immigration problem because from a mechanical point of view it's immensely difficult, but primarily because their heart is not in it and it hasn't been for a very long time.
Remember this....
Gordon Brown saying the quiet thing out loud by accident.
When the right wing say Labour has abandoned the white working class, that the globalist elitists like Blair, Brown and Starmer despise them, this is what they're talking about.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
OK, watched it. John McTernan was talking nonsense. Thousands and thousands of people went outside to protest during these riots. A small number - perhaps a hundred or even a couple of hundred, I would guess - out of the thousands, were obviously criminals and did engage in riot. But thousands did not riot, they stood and watched and perhaps chanted or shouted.
To suggest they are all far-right racists is just ridiculous. Apart from anything else, the majority of people in many of those towns are Labour supporters. McTernan is just yet another example of someone who is not prepared to acknowledge that people are concerned about mass immigration. How on earth does he think Reform got 4,1m votes? Who were these voters, does he think?