The Labour Government

Blue Maverick said:
You do know that now has to be offered in all employment.
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In private organisations it’s policed. I know for a 100% fact that in a number of councils in greater Manchester it isn’t.
It was the pushback to Osborne’s austerity deal.
 
bluethrunthru said:
They are all as bad as each other is the worst mindset you can adopt - that means all sides have won and neutralised you and your vote
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Along side the mindset, they're not quite as bad as the others so I will vote for them and defend them no matter what.

The fucknut mindset as its called I believe.
 
Kompany Car said:
I think people need to appreciate that there is more than one scheme in the public sector some seem very generous, other not so much.

The Civil Service pension in particular looks rather unbalanced by comparison to the NHS.

Civil Service is below...
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Compared to NHS which seems less generous for some reason...
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Jesus that is generous.
 
PPT said:
In private organisations it’s policed. I know for a 100% fact that in a number of councils in greater Manchester it isn’t.
It was the pushback to Osborne’s austerity deal.
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What do you mean policies it’s a legal right of any employee to ask for it, whoever they work for has to have a good reason not to.
 
metalblue said:
Jesus that is generous.
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23% employer contrubution in the NHS and that is "not so generous"!

This is exactly my point. Between 1/4 and 1/3rd of your pay paid into your pension every year, without tax. It's an absolutely enormous perk that is unheard of at this level in the private sector.

Related I am sick and tired of hearing how poorly paid junior doctors are. Sure the starting salaries are not huge (£32k before the latest pay rise taking it to £36k) is hardly terrible. But add on to that the pension, AND the fact that it's a stepping stone on the career path of ever higher earnings. Doctors end up on £100k or more (plus the generous pension) and most on A LOT more since they often only work 3 days a week for the NHS and earn even more with private work. It's not uncommon for them to be earning £200k in total.

So starting on a "low??" salary is all part of the deal. Just the same as accountants and lawyers, for example. My mate was dismally paid as a trainee accountant (£4k per year in the early 80's when I was on like £16k) after doing a business studies degree. So much so that he had to live with his mum and dad until he was 30! But he knew it would be worth it and now he's a chief accountant/company secretary on around £120k per year.

But when was the last time you heard of a junior accountants' strike?
 
Chippy_boy said:
23% employer contrubution in the NHS and that is "not so generous"!

This is exactly my point. Between 1/4 and 1/3rd of your pay paid into your pension every year, without tax. It's an absolutely enormous perk that is unheard of at this level in the private sector.

Related I am sick and tired of hearing how poorly paid junior doctors are. Sure the starting salaries are not huge (£32k before the latest pay rise taking it to £36k) is hardly terrible. But add on to that the pension, AND the fact that it's a stepping stone on the career path of ever higher earnings. Doctors end up on £100k or more (plus the generous pension) and most on A LOT more since they often only work 3 days a week for the NHS and earn even more with private work. It's not uncommon for them to be earning £200k in total.

So starting on a "low??" salary is all part of the deal. Just the same as accountants and lawyers, for example. My mate was dismally paid as a trainee accountant after doing a business studies degree. So much so that he had to live with his mum and dad until he was 30! But he knew it would be worth it and now he's a chief accountant/company secretary on around £120k per year.
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Wow, so much wrong about this post , you also disrepect the training the doctors have done and they save lifes ,using then to score political points is frankly pathetic

The doctors never stop training , the take on new skills to be able to go up the ladder , ten yrs to get anywhere near being a consultant and same to be a gp
 
Blue Maverick said:
What do you mean policies it’s a legal right of any employee to ask for it, whoever they work for has to have a good reason not to.
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No I mean policed. As in you make up the hours you take off using flexitime. You just don’t come and go as you please.
 
kaz7 said:
Wow, so much wrong about this post , you also disrepect the traing the doctors have done and they save lifes ,using then to score political points is frankly pathetic
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No Kaz you're disrespecting the training e.g. accountants and everyone else may have done. What's pathetic is your cracked record defence of every practice in the NHS like you're all fucking angels. They choose to to do the job, and if they don't like it, bugger off and work somewhere else. They get paid for what they do and the public having to suck up to them is not part of the package.

I understand you won't get this. You never do. Doctors are extremely well paid all things considered.
 
Chippy_boy said:
23% employer contrubution in the NHS and that is "not so generous"!

This is exactly my point. Between 1/4 and 1/3rd of your pay paid into your pension every year, without tax. It's an absolutely enormous perk that is unheard of at this level in the private sector.

Related I am sick and tired of hearing how poorly paid junior doctors are. Sure the starting salaries are not huge (£32k before the latest pay rise taking it to £36k) is hardly terrible. But add on to that the pension, AND the fact that it's a stepping stone on the career path of ever higher earnings. Doctors end up on £100k or more (plus the generous pension) and most on A LOT more since they often only work 3 days a week for the NHS and earn even more with private work. It's not uncommon for them to be earning £200k in total.

So starting on a "low??" salary is all part of the deal. Just the same as accountants and lawyers, for example. My mate was dismally paid as a trainee accountant (£4k per year in the early 80's when I was on like £16k) after doing a business studies degree. So much so that he had to live with his mum and dad until he was 30! But he knew it would be worth it and now he's a chief accountant/company secretary on around £120k per year.

But when was the last time you heard of a junior accountants' strike?
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Exactly this. My daughter is a lawyer. She’s earning a decent crust now, but while she was training the pay was far from generous.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No Kaz you're disrespecting the training accountants have done. What's pathetic is your cracked record defence of every practice in the NHS like you're all fucking angels. They choose to to do the job, and if they don't like it, bugger off and work somewhere else. They get paid for what they do and the public having to suck up to them is not part of the package.

I understand you won't get this. You never do.
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An absolute pain in the arse mate. Truly.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No Kaz you're disrespecting the training e.g. accountants and everyone else may have done. What's pathetic is your cracked record defence of every practice in the NHS like you're all fucking angels. They choose to to do the job, and if they don't like it, bugger off and work somewhere else. They get paid for what they do and the public having to suck up to them is not part of the package.

I understand you won't get this. You never do. Doctors are extremely well paid all things considered.
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Accountants ? Lol , you are past reasoning with , be nice to drs if one saves your life or the life of your kid, if you have any

I watched a hospital doco when a surgeon operated on a baby still in the womb so it would be born and live , how much shall we pay him ?
 
meltonblue said:
Generous compared to other schemes around now. It’s depressing how bad pension schemes are now compared to what they used to be.
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Sorry to be making a political point but genuinely it is the case that Gordon Brown fucked over private pension schemes with his tax raid on them, effectively ending final salary schemes by rendering them unaffordable. Prior to this it was wonderful that you could usually expect n 40ths of you final salary where n was your years of service. It meant many people were able to retire at ages and with pensions most of us could only dream of.

A few years back it was reckoned that Brown's raid had cost private sector workers on average £200,000 each in lost pension growth over the period. It will be more than that now.
 
kaz7 said:
Accountants ? Lol , you are past reasoning with , be nice to drs if one saves your life or the life of your kid, if you have any

I watched a hospital doco when a surgeon operated on a baby still in the womb so it would be born and live , how much shall we pay him ?
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£20.

Seriously no idea. How much should we pay mountain rescue teams, or firemen? What about farmers - we'd all starve without them.

I'm sorry but I am not putting NHS workers on any pedestal. That you do, is up to you.
 
meltonblue said:
Generous compared to other schemes around now. It’s depressing how bad pension schemes are now compared to what they used to be.
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Shirley then the private sector employers should do more not have public dragged down to their level. When the tax payer is having to supplement workers in the private sector due to shit wages I don’t see people up in arms as much about our tax money doing that. But then again if Tesco paid a higher wage all our bills would go up, but that’s the greedy private sector for you! I’m sick to death of public sector workers getting slagged off when ever something goes for them yet the same twats were lauding them through Covid. Everyone deserves a decent wage and pension and be able to enjoy an early retirement, that’s what people should be arguing for not to bring others down but pull others up.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Shirley then the private sector employers should do more not have public dragged down to their level. When the tax payer is having to supplement workers in the private sector due to shit wages I don’t see people up in arms as much about our tax money doing that. But then again if Tesco paid a higher wage all our bills would go up, but that’s the greedy private sector for you! I’m sick to death of public sector workers getting slagged off when ever something goes for them yet the same twats were lauding them through Covid. Everyone deserves a decent wage and pension and be able to enjoy an early retirement, that’s what people should be arguing for not to bring others down but pull others up.
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Yes they absolutely should. The concentration of wealth in private companies at the top end is depressing too.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Shirley then the private sector employers should do more not have public dragged down to their level. When the tax payer is having to supplement workers in the private sector due to shit wages I don’t see people up in arms as much about our tax money doing that. But then again if Tesco paid a higher wage all our bills would go up, but that’s the greedy private sector for you! I’m sick to death of public sector workers getting slagged off when ever something goes for them yet the same twats were lauding them through Covid. Everyone deserves a decent wage and pension and be able to enjoy an early retirement, that’s what people should be arguing for not to bring others down but pull others up.
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I'm all for people being paid more mate. What I am not all for is people constantly whining about hard done by they are, especially when they are not, e.g. with generous public sector pensions.

Regards how crap private pensions are, people should read this:

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Brown's pension tax raid was the most idiotic decision I can recall

Reverse Brown's move. It would cost hardly anything. Jeremy Hunt could do it, and Rachel Reeves could show Labour would be on the side of pensioners by supporting it.
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk
 
PPT said:
I've been banging on about this for a long time and the lefties just will not have it,
It is a genuine national scandal. And don't forget the pensions are index linked for life.
It's a very unfunny joke.
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Ah, the politics of envy. Please explain if the deal is so good why councils are struggling to recruit accountants, planners etc from the private sector...
 
PPT said:
Exactly this. My daughter is a lawyer. She’s earning a decent crust now, but while she was training the pay was far from generous.
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What you two are describing is trainee workers being exploited by their companies for the potential reward of a high salary later down the line.

That can't happen in the public sector and nor should it.

There's absolutely no good reason why trainee solicitors need to earn the same salaries as a office juniorsafter 4 years of tertiary education and work 60 hr weeks when they are contracted for 37/40.

If people want to do that in pursuit of a professional career that's their choice.
 
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