Middle East Conflict

ChicagoBlue said:
I don’t know which land, or when, or even why. What I know is that they didn’t start this round of conflict, but they intend to end it on their terms, if and when they see fit.
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Have you any idea what those terms are ? Because the rest of the world is fucked if they know, all we here are nebulous claims like Hamas and Hezbollah dismantled and disarmed, do you really think that is achievable?

To me it's a war without a set achievable result, and as any military strategist will tell you that's just a recipe for getting bogged down. Lebanon is a better armed version of Afghanistan, but it's your tax that will be funding this, meanwhile China clean up on trade especially in the Middle East Russia gain in influence, Israel slowly bleeds to death and America loses

Or we could have a meaningful peace process that would normalise the lives of people living in the region it's not a difficult choice for me, because as long as the brutal occupation and land grab goes on West bank this horror show will continue

By the way all of Americas allies in the region are saying exactly the same thing it's time to talk about peace with dignity for both sides
 
inbetween said:
If the US went into a bombing campaign that killed potentially 1000 innocent people in mere weeks then we'd be utterly shocked and disgusted. It'd certainly be declared illegal and excessive.

If there was one terrorist in Chicago then would you accept that the Royal Air Force from the UK could fly into the US and drop a 1000lb bomb right in the centre of the apartment block where the terrorist lived whilst also killing hundreds of innocents? This is the same analogy of what Israel is doing in Lebanon.

Well targeted and planned attacks from the air do not kill and wound thousands of people. What Israel is doing is extremely likely to be illegal unless of course they've killed thousands of terrorists and no civilians but given the pictures of them bombing central Beirut I find that to be extremely unlikely!

I understand everybody around them hates them and there are reasons for that but bombing civilian areas and causing such excessive loss of life and damage is never justified, at least by western standards anyway.
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Did you see the rubble in Europe after WWII?
Were my parents running into the air raid shelters for exercise?

War is horrific, which is why we do our utmost not to let/make it happen, but when it does there’s nothing sanitary, organized or convenient about it. Bad guys hide where they hope they will have an advantage, not in designated hiding spots.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I don’t know which land, or when, or even why. What I know is that they didn’t start this round of conflict, but they intend to end it on their terms, if and when they see fit.
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I know you're a gun owner Chicago. So what would you do if your neighbour slung you and your family out of your property beating you up in the process then taking your House and Land.

Be honest how would you react?
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
What about the Palestinians' self-determination?
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I think that was what was being exhibited on October 7th and it didn’t work out too well.

Maybe they should talk to the Ayatollah and see if he’ll STFU and stay out of their business and leave Israel alone?
 
Ducado said:
Have you any idea what those terms are ? Because the rest of the world is fucked if they know, all we here are nebulous claims like Hamas and Hezbollah dismantled and disarmed, do you really think that is achievable?

To me it's a war without a set achievable result, and as any military strategist will tell you that's just a recipe for getting bogged down. Lebanon is a better armed version of Afghanistan, but it's your tax that will be funding this, meanwhile China clean up on trade especially in the Middle East Russia gain in influence, Israel slowly bleeds to death and America loses

Or we could have a meaningful peace process that would normalise the lives of people living in the region it's not a difficult choice for me, because as long as the brutal occupation and land grab goes on West bank this horror show will continue

By the way all of Americas allies in the region are saying exactly the same thing it's time to talk about peace with dignity for both sides
Click to expand...
No-one I know is against a “meaningful peace process,” only what that means. What are “normalized lives” under the Iranian regime? Assumption of power by Mohammed and the Ayatollah?

Fix the religious problems between the two and you might have a chance, but while both spout being “chosen” one wonders what kind of person would choose either one, given what we are currently seeing!

Everyone, bar a few (religious) megalomaniacs running the show, want to end the suffering. Quandary!
 
tel aviv city said:
Do you have any idea what it's like to live next to terror and crime among civilians? Netanyahu's Israel tried for 15 years
And it failed, the time to conduct ourselves as the gift of wits, that we agreed to live next to it, even finance it - no more
Israel woke up to a new day -
The terror will either destroy our country, God forbid, or it will fold and look for other enemies, and by the way, it is not particularly lacking
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No, but I know too wrongs dont make a right.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I think that was what was being exhibited on October 7th and it didn’t work out too well.

Maybe they should talk to the Ayatollah and see if he’ll STFU and stay out of their business and leave Israel alone?
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Hahaha. Yea, just leave poor israel alone to murder, rape, torture, steal land and invade countries, the poor souls!

I watched the Iranian speech today. Very controlled. We are lucky that they are staying so calm in the face of the ongoing genocide, invasions amd aggressions from israel. Unfortunately israel won't stop as they have no rules, no morales, and lots of weapons as they pay off and/or have dirt on ours and US politicians, who also seem to be soulless ghouls willing to turn a blind eye to a genocide in order to feather their own nest. We can't expect Iran (and everyone else) to sit and take it from Israel forever. Looks like we will all pay a price at some point for Israel's continuous, heinous crimes
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Hahaha. Yea, just leave poor israel alone to murder, rape, torture, steal land and invade countries, the poor souls!

I watched the Iranian speech today. Very controlled. We are lucky that they are staying so calm in the face of the ongoing genocide, invasions amd aggressions from israel. Unfortunately israel won't stop as they have no rules, no morales, and lots of weapons as they pay off and/or have dirt on ours and US politicians, who also seem to be soulless ghouls willing to turn a blind eye to a genocide in order to feather their own nest. We can't expect Iran (and everyone else) to sit and take it from Israel forever. Looks like we will all pay a price at some point for Israel's continuous, heinous crimes
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I’ll put you down as not a fan.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
No-one I know is against a “meaningful peace process,” only what that means. What are “normalized lives” under the Iranian regime? Assumption of power by Mohammed and the Ayatollah?

Fix the religious problems between the two and you might have a chance, but while both spout being “chosen” one wonders what kind of person would choose either one, given what we are currently seeing!

Everyone, bar a few (religious) megalomaniacs running the show, want to end the suffering. Quandary!
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Normalised lives means exactly what it says, Arabs and Jews deserve to go about their daily business unhindered and not under the threat of missile attacks, having their land stolen et, etc
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I don’t know which land, or when, or even why. What I know is that they didn’t start this round of conflict, but they intend to end it on their terms, if and when they see fit.
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Frankly, that's an astonishing admission. "This round of conflict"? I take it you don't mean the round of all the building of illegal settlements.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Did you see the rubble in Europe after WWII?
Were my parents running into the air raid shelters for exercise?

War is horrific, which is why we do our utmost not to let/make it happen, but when it does there’s nothing sanitary, organized or convenient about it. Bad guys hide where they hope they will have an advantage, not in designated hiding spots.
Click to expand...
The difference is though Israel are not at war with Lebanon, they're at war with Hezbollah who just so happen to reside in Lebanon. To indiscriminately bomb Lebanese people and call it simple collateral is just wrong. If Israel dropped a nuclear bomb on Beirut killing millions then is that collateral because apparently it seems so?

There are rules on proportionality and in WW2 the proportionality rule was equal to the point where it was basically eye for an eye. Anything Nazi Germany did to us we mostly did the same in return. That isn't the case here because the civilian casualties are disproportionally and massively weighted on one side.

How many civilians have been killed on the Israeli side? Even if you include 7/10, in the last year the ratio of Israeli civilian deaths to civilian deaths caused by Israel elsewhere must be something like 100000:1. How on earth could this be called reasonable self-defence?

You have one side with slingshots essentially and the other with F-35's. The burden on the better armed side is to show restraint and carefully plan attacks given their capability to do so, Israel hasn't done that clearly. Hezbollah won't do the same indeed but their capability of doing any damage is virtually nil.

I woud like to see the end of Hezbollah and Hamas but does that mean ending every single population within 500 miles of Israel too?
 
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