PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

If it is true that APT is null and void because of the unlawfulness around soft loans, then the same can be challenged for the whole FFP framework presumably. This is an absolutely vital point to clear up imho and I am not surprised City are not going to let the PL off the hook easily.

It is worth challenging the limitation on owner investment which appears to be a flagrant breach of the law. This would, of course destroy the central feature of the regulations which restricts revenue to certain streams which (used to be) dominated by the cartel. Personally I'm not opposed to some form of cost control but not one so obviously in the interests of a cartel.

 

[BlueFurn]

Wasn't the Leicester decision around the same time as ours, but our decision was delayed being made public for 12 days

It took Masters and Co twelve days to write the little statement that made them look like bigger twats than everyone thought they were.
Infant school may have been closed for a few days before the office junior scribbled that crap.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I haven't had much free time recently but I had a quick look at Brighton & Arsenal's accounts. Brighton declare Bloom's loans as an RPT but the Arsenal accounts I looked at don't. I think there's a holding company accounts I didn't look at so I'll do that tonight.

But if Arsenal aren't declaring owner loans as an RPT then surely they're not submitting accurate accounts, which is what we've been charged with, and where the charges specifically mention related parties.

Update to this.

I've checked Arsenal's ultimate UK-based holding company and Arsenal do not declare the loan from KSE as a Related Party Transaction.

One of the driving forces behind the introduction of APT rules was the belief by the cartel that Etihad was a related party to City (it isn't) and we weren't declaring it as such. So why don't Arsenal declare their owner loan as an RPT (which it is) and why aren't the PL charging them with a failure to provide accounts properly prepared under current reporting standards?

Further update: They don't have to declare any RPT which is solely within the group of companies, but they should state that in their accounts, which they don't.

 

[johnny crossan]

Martin Samuel in concert with noises off

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[the blue panther]

Wasn't the Leicester decision around the same time as ours, but our decision was delayed being made public for 12 days

The Leicester decision was announced on 3rd September, so, as our decision was published this week and was delayed by 12 days, we were 2/3 weeks behind Leicester's case.

 

[LeonardoDaVnci]

My understanding is that City "Didn't take them to court" the PL took City to a tribunal

From the ruling, we challenged the PLs use of APTs after they refused to approve our sponsorship deals.

 

[LeonardoDaVnci]

From the ruling, we challenged the PLs use of APTs after they refused to approve our sponsorship deals.

View attachment 134565

We wanted those 2 APT decisions to be 'set aside' ie cancelled and they were. However we don't know until the 2nd hearing if the PL will use an updated process to come up with same decisions, or the APT framework will have to be replaced. The question is do the sponsorships get waved through, hopefully yes, because they are probably 10 year deals. The PL are doing absolutely everything they can to stop those sponsorships, we are doing everything to force the PL to approve them, and pay us compensation for the delayed start of our revenue.
My guess is the deal we wanted was for £75m/year but the PL said no, it has to be £25m/year. So over a decade we would lose £500m in revenue. I'd also guess the PL will make an improved offer around £35m/year.
The question is, how much would it hurt us to not have that guaranteed £40m every year. Maybe we should wait until they approve the value but then in a years time say the deal ended prematurely due to bona fide clause, and then reapply but asking for £50m/year.

 

[cookster]

Here's what they've been paying in interest vs what BOE base rates were at the time. Note the loan was given as a way of refinancing existing debt for the stadium as opposed to being used to buy players.

I'd say any independent auditor may query why the interest % paid in 2022-23 was lower vs previous periods when the BOE base rate was higher TBH. I doubt Arsenal were offered a 0% balance transfer deal on their credit card.

View attachment 134521

That's literally been knocked up on some gooners laptop ;)

 

[BerkshireBlue]

We wanted those 2 APT decisions to be 'set aside' ie cancelled and they were. However we don't know until the 2nd hearing if the PL will use an updated process to come up with same decisions, or the APT framework will have to be replaced. The question is do the sponsorships get waved through, hopefully yes, because they are probably 10 year deals. The PL are doing absolutely everything they can to stop those sponsorships, we are doing everything to force the PL to approve them, and pay us compensation for the delayed start of our revenue.
My guess is the deal we wanted was for £75m/year but the PL said no, it has to be £25m/year. So over a decade we would lose £500m in revenue. I'd also guess the PL will make an improved offer around £35m/year.
The question is, how much would it hurt us to not have that guaranteed £40m every year. Maybe we should wait until they approve the value but then in a years time say the deal ended prematurely due to bona fide clause, and then reapply but asking for £50m/year.

a mickey mouse club like Arsenal that have less fans and less trophies just got £50m a year for only shirt sponsorship and stadium naming rights. City should be at least at £75m given ours includes training ground, the women stadium sponsorship and a bunch of other things. Plus we were the champions of Europe, champions of the world and champions of the premier league and the most watched team in the premier league. I think we went for £85m which wouldn't have been far off FMV

 

[Stoned Rose]

Update to this.

I've checked Arsenal's ultimate UK-based holding company and Arsenal do not declare the loan from KSE as a Related Party Transaction.

One of the driving forces behind the introduction of APT rules was the belief by the cartel that Etihad was a related party to City (it isn't) and we weren't declaring it as such. So why don't Arsenal declare their owner loan as an RPT (which it is) and why aren't the PL charging them with a failure to provide accounts properly prepared under current reporting standards?

Further update: They don't have to declare any RPT which is solely within the group of companies, but they should state that in their accounts, which they don't.

No doubt if every other ****’s accounts were scrutinised to fuck like ours there’d be all kinds of shit going on.

 

[LeonardoDaVnci]

The two key PL executives in the APT tribunal were these two, fyi Dharmash Mistry is a life long supporter and executive box owner at Arsenal. It was Fyfield who was responsible for the decision to refuse the sponsorships.

Premier League confirms reappointment of Board Members Mai Fyfield and Dharmash Mistry

Clubs confirm further three-year terms for the two Independent Non-Executive Directors first appointed in October 2021

www.premierleague.com

 

[Stoned Rose]

Saying that you didn't use the loan for players and only for the stadium makes no sense - It's like your parents loaning you £100 for a pair of trainers but you spent it on food shopping and paid for the trainers out of your own money.

There’s no way this applies.

The Tarquin gets his trainers from Decathlon for £17.

 

[There is a Light]

No doubt if every other ****’s accounts were scrutinised to fuck like ours there’d be all kinds of shit going on.

Exactly this. Strangely only one club has been the victim of an international hacker - I wonder why that would be.

As Billy Meredith said about the 1900’s financial scandal, “clubs are not punished for breaking the law – they are punished for being found out”

 

[cheekybids]

Update to this.

I've checked Arsenal's ultimate UK-based holding company and Arsenal do not declare the loan from KSE as a Related Party Transaction.

One of the driving forces behind the introduction of APT rules was the belief by the cartel that Etihad was a related party to City (it isn't) and we weren't declaring it as such. So why don't Arsenal declare their owner loan as an RPT (which it is) and why aren't the PL charging them with a failure to provide accounts properly prepared under current reporting standards?

Further update: They don't have to declare any RPT which is solely within the group of companies, but they should state that in their accounts, which they don't.

Cheating cunts!

It’s their rules & they still don’t follow them.

 

[Gogootz]

It's not looking good for us so don't build your hopes up.

He's prob closer than Magic Hat TBF lol

 

[Holcombe bloo]

We could end up in a doomsday scenario where City get done on the 115 and get points deducted, Arsenal and Liverpool get done for Shareholder loans and likewise get points taken off, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle etc get done for not properly accounting for commercial revenues and also get a points deduction and the Rags end up winning the PL by default!

#Sireriktenhag

No that wouldn’t happen as only city would be investigated.

 

[Damanino]

you can bet your life on it if PL would do the forensic investigation on our account going back 15 years on all 20 PL clubs they would find something they could base charges on it against every club. but they dont do it, only with us and maybe Chelsea who had to self report some dirt on themselves lo for PL to look into...

still i wish we were not so friendly at the scouting hacking to accept a 1m fee and moving on quietly, seeing the media attack in last few years can anyone imagine media reaction, PL reaction today if we are found guilty doing the same vs Arsenal or dippers scouting database. would Arse or dippers accept a quiet hearing and fee of 1m? we wouldnt hear the end of it how its cheating, how we got caught, PL would start investigation on nother 19 clubs IT system if we hacked those as well and the media frenzy of all that with constant questions to Pep from media about it.

 

[lasereyes]

No that's wrong. City have challenged the idea that 'soft' shareholder loans (be they zero or low interest or market rate interest) are not currently considered an APT when they clearly are.

What this means is that clubs like Arsenal will have to have the value of those soft loans assessed (and that's a separate thing to what level of interest they are paying) and that value will then be included in the PSR calculation.

Another interesting thing is people saying 'oh they'll just convert to equity' - well apparently equity can't be directly injected by owners otherwise City & Newcastle would just blow everyone else out of the water anyway.

PSR is only calculated on earnings generated, its going to take some financial gymnastics by the cartel clubs to get rid of those loans from a PSR perspective.

Also, bear in mind that the only reason Arsenals soft loans are done at interest level they are is to satisfy UEFA's PSR rules which don't allow zero interest loans.

I dont follow this. Man City has substantial Equity injections - Sheikh Mansour owns 81%, Silver Lake 18%, etc. I assume the reason shareholders make loans is they can withdraw these at their behest (or subject to some finite term) vs Equity which is permanent capital. it is also highly beneficial for the club/company as debt is cheaper than Equity - particularly if you are paying minimal interest.

 

[BeerIsTheBest]

Looking Mistry up on the internet you may be mistaken on his allegiances? Just as bad ‘avid dipper fan’- see his passions listed below

The two key PL executives in the APT tribunal were these two, fyi Dharmash Mistry is a life long supporter and executive box owner at Arsenal. It was Fyfield who was responsible for the decision to refuse the sponsorships.

Premier League confirms reappointment of Board Members Mai Fyfield and Dharmash Mistry

Clubs confirm further three-year terms for the two Independent Non-Executive Directors first appointed in October 2021

www.premierleague.com

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[Damanino]

after a big shirt deal Saudi sponsors decided to pay some more for the naming rights of the new Atletico Madrid stadium.
question is does Mr Tebas crying in the media over it? how can this happen in his league, dirty arab money innit? so many hypocrites.