Assisted dying

[johnny crossan]

So what?

I think you should be able to work out the concern many folk have about coercion and self-coercion as a result of this bill for yourself with a bit more effort.

 

[metalblue]

If this is passed today it still has to get through the House of Lords. In the meantime dying people still suffer every day while I listen to a debate ignoring the pain of dying people.

Anyone whose ever suffered pain will know how hard it is to get paracetamol/ibuprofen off the doctor imagine the horror end of life and painkillers are rationed we can’t give you any more morphine it might kill you.

I can guarantee that doesn’t happen mate.

What many people fail to understand is pain killers are addictive hence they are given sparingly. Come end of life no medical professional is considering the risks of you becoming addicted so you’ve got a whole cupboard of options to find relief from.

They’ll give you as much as you need of whatever you need.

 

[johnny crossan]

If you say so

Not just me friend, maybe try listening to others in the current HoC debate making the case against this bill far better than I can.

 

[metalblue]

Cannot agree with that at all.
I would also say even having good palliative care does not prevent pain and suffering as I well know from family circumstances.

Good palliative care does mate. If you had a family member suffer it wasn’t good palliative care.

 

[mosssideblue]

Not just me friend, maybe try listening to others in the current HoC debate making the case against this bill far better than I can.

Ditto those speaking for the bill.
Still awaiting your answer to me asking you are you content to let people suffer immense and uncontrollable pain

 

[threespires]

I've got the debate on in the background and though I think the process of seeking to do this through a Private Members Bill is very flawed I'll say one thing....we tend to demonise our politicians but they are showing today that they can act as proper dignified parliamentarians.

 

[mosssideblue]

Good palliative care does mate. If you had a family member suffer it wasn’t good palliative care.

Depends on what is meant by good palliative care.

Do you mean dosing someone up with so much morphine they are effectively in a coma only to come around to be once again in unbearable pain, rinse and repeat.

 

[johnny crossan]

Ditto those speaking for the bill.
Still awaiting your answer to me asking you are you content to let people suffer immense and uncontrollable pain

Of course not, but I agree with those who argue this bill isn't the answer and will create more suffering than it will prevent.

 

[metalblue]

Depends on what is meant by good palliative care.

Do you mean dosing someone up with so much morphine they are effectively in a coma only to come around to be once again in unbearable pain, rinse and repeat.

That’s not how palliative care works mate. They’d use an appropriate PRN dose in a syringe driver.

 

[stonerblue]

Depends on what is meant by good palliative care.

Do you mean dosing someone up with so much morphine they are effectively in a coma only to come around to be once again in unbearable pain, rinse and repeat.

Friend of mine was given ketamine at end of life palliative care because the morphine wasn't strong enough for her anee more

 

[kaz7]

I hope they do the right thing , people calling it state sponsered murder and disabled people being murdered on mass can fuck right off

Being coerced is a nonsense , why would you put pressure on an already dying person ? What would pressure do when they wouldnt be eligable unless they were near their end anyway ?

 

[metalblue]

Of course not, but I agree with those who argue this bill isn't the answer and will create more suffering than it will prevent.

I’m not sure this bill will do anything for anyone really. And that’s the danger with it for me, they start amending it and its morphs in to something else. I’d rather they spent the time to get it right.

Assisted dying is absolutely right for some people although being dead is rarely in anyone’s best interests. The reasons should never be because our palliative care isn’t good enough when we know how to do it well. I worry successive governments will see assisted dying as an easy fix and not invest in palliative care.

 

[johnny crossan]

We'll know the result of the vote very soon, the house is dividing.

 

[metalblue]

I hope they do the right thing , people calling it state sponsered murder and disabled people being murdered on mass can fuck right off

Being coerced is a nonsense , why would you put pressure on an already dying person ? What would pressure do when they wouldnt be eligable unless they were near their end anyway ?

You hope they do what you want to see. That doesn’t automatically make it the right thing. Generally agree with the rest of your post.

 

[mosssideblue]

That’s not how palliative care works mate. They’d use an appropriate PRN dose in a syringe driver.

Dosing as required, I get that but in many cases, the as required dosage has to be increased to numb the pain till such time the patient is totally spaced out

 

[Blue warrior]

I watched a close family friend pass from stomach cancer recently.

First diagnosed 10 years ago 90% of his stomach removed went into remission but warned a high chance this comes back and it sadly did. The pain vomiting blood and his own faeces was coming up through his mouth. The family wished they could have afforded to pay for assisted death.

 

[The blue phantom]

You hope they do what you want to see. That doesn’t automatically make it the right thing.

The majority want to see.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

We don’t know how to do palliative care well enough.
Pain cannot always be managed away.

 

[mosssideblue]

I’m not sure this bill will do anything for anyone really. And that’s the danger with it for me, they start amending it and its morphs in to something else. I’d rather they spent the time to get it right.

Assisted dying is absolutely right for some people although being dead is rarely in anyone’s best interests. The reasons should never be because our palliative care isn’t good enough when we know how to do it well. I worry successive governments will see assisted dying as an easy fix and not invest in palliative care.

We need both

 

[metalblue]

Dosing as required, I get that but in many cases, the as required dosage has to be increased to numb the pain till such time the patient is totally spaced out

Ultimately that can be the compromise between pain and no pain. Obviously there is little to no quality of live at that point for the patient but they aren’t suffering. Then the process becomes harder on the families rather than the patient. Nobody is going to be helped along their way in the final week of life when they get to this point.