Homophobia in football

[Toney’s bookie]

Manchester City to feature in Dare to Defy documentary series, powered by Nissan

Manchester City and long-standing partner Nissan have teamed up to showcase the Club's continued support for the LGBTQ+ community as part of a new 'Dare to Defy' documentary series, powered by Nissan.

www.mancity.com

 

[mexico1970]

No offense is meant as both my posts were written as to be neutral and not aimed at a particular group or practice and only someone looking to be offended would think otherwise.

Think about it - If you're trying to defend the tolerance of something/anything then you naturally become less tolerant of the things that attack it, until you're finally tolerant of nothing other the original subject.

You've perfectly highlighted what happens when you try to please everyone mate, you end up pleasing no one.

In fact worse than that you can get the attention of ideologues who think there are two choices in any instance and that you are with them fully or you are against them.

Best to give your opinion and then give no quarter, if others don't like it they could always write to their MP.

 

[stonerblue]

Just saw this:



Religion is so messed up. You can be openly homophobic if you want as long as you hide behind “religious reasons”.

Not wearing an LGBTQ armband is not homophobic.

 

[mexico1970]

So it was ok all those years ago when England played in Berlin and the whole team had to give the Nazi salute because they were told too?

The intention was important, if the protest by a member of a team would be classes as "progressive" it would be welcomed. This should have been kept out of sports as well as politics.

There is nothing inclusive about either.

 

[No.8]

Hate him for that too then. It's got nothing to do with wearing poppies Vs wearing rainbow armbands though.

It was YOU that made the comparison and brought him into the argument

 

[stonerblue]

My group of mates is very 00s ‘lad culture’, un-PC. Yet if one of our mates came out gay, I don’t think any of us would bat an eyelid. What someone likes sexually has nowt to do with anyone else. Unless the lad he was shagging was a fat ugly ****, then we’d then take the piss out of him for having shit taste in men like we would any of the lads who shag a female fifteen-pinter.

hahahahaahaha

 

[Gazza]

Not wearing an LGBTQ armband is not homophobic.

He probably should have let his feelings known to the manager who could have quietly given the captaincy to another player for the game - the result would be less people offended.

 

[supercity88]

It was YOU that made the comparison and brought him into the argument

Read it back mate as he was actually saying the same thing you are - you can hate the bloke for certain things but you should respect his right to have his position on other things even if you don't agree.

The point is, you could respect Morsy for not wearing the armband for religious beliefs if he was consistent. But he's happily worn betting sponsors on his shirt despite that being against his religious beliefs so he's picking and choosing when he applies them which points to a bigger issue.

 

[balotelli's back pocket]

Not wearing an LGBTQ armband is not homophobic.

Refusing to wear an armband calling for the basic dignity and human rights of LGBTQ people does make you homophobic, actually. Especially when your reason is "it's against my religion".

If your religion tells you that gay people don't deserve the same human rights as straight people, it's a homophobic religion. Sadly, the vast majority of religions are.

These guys should own it. It's been said already, but it's funny how these players follow the Bible or the Quran to the letter when it comes to gay people, but when it comes to sex, drinking and gambling, it's all open to interpretation.

 

[jaiguruKun]

What Guehi did is more homophobic than Morsy in my opinion. His fundamentalist Christian position is that gays will go to hell but can be saved if they believe in Jesus.

 

[balotelli's back pocket]

What Guehi did is more homophobic than Morsy in my opinion. His fundamentalist Christian position is that gays will go to hell but can be saved if they believe in Jesus.

I agree. Making out that everyone who has a problem with it is anti-Christian - where was this message every other week? Or does he only love Jesus as much as he hates gay people?

 

[youngbob]

Some people don't tolerate blasphemy.

I asked you before you if you donate to charity. I'll explain why.

Poverty, illness, war, famine, etc. All these things are "normal" in society, unfortunately, but those of us who don't suffer with these things help where we can, just in little ways, to make things better for those less fortunate.

It's special treatment, but it's special treatment that's needed.

Homophobia is also pretty normal in society as well, but things like the Rainbow Laces campaign are little gestures to make things a little better for those who have to deal with it. Not that different to charity really.

It's not really ramming anything down anyone's throat, it's just a polite reminder. Homophobia is a societal ill and those of us who can show support and help where we can have a duty to stamp it out.

This is what I don't understand about homophobia in religion full-stop. Christianity says "Judge not that ye be judged", Islam encourages charity and giving, and yet we're still here 2,000 years later debating over it.

 

[mexico1970]

I asked you before you if you donate to charity. I'll explain why.

Poverty, illness, war, famine, etc. All these things are "normal" in society, unfortunately, but those of us who don't suffer with these things help where we can, just in little ways, to make things better for those less fortunate.

It's special treatment, but it's special treatment that's needed.

Homophobia is also pretty normal in society as well, but things like the Rainbow Laces campaign are little gestures to make things a little better for those who have to deal with it. Not that different to charity really.

It's not really ramming anything down anyone's throat, it's just a polite reminder. Homophobia is a societal ill and those of us who can show support and help where we can have a duty to stamp it out.

This is what I don't understand about homophobia in religion full-stop. Christianity says "Judge not that ye be judged", Islam encourages charity and giving, and yet we're still here 2,000 years later debating over it.

Still, people should be ASKED to wear one and not shamed if they don't. I am neither religious or that interested in not offending anyone.

WEAR THIS!!

NO!!

End off discussion.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

It would be quite a quick PR win for the clubs to change their captains and put out a message to say that the6 didn’t want their teams led by people of such character.

Then the players uncomfortable with wearing the armband don’t have the turmoil and the clubs are showing society that inclusivity and solidarity beats marginalisation.

 

[youngbob]

Still, people should be ASKED to wear one and not shamed if they don't. I am neither religious or that interested in not offending anyone.

WEAR THIS!!

NO!!

End off discussion.

Right, but the thing is, the problem people have with Morsy isn't that he refused to wear the armband. The problem is his justification for not doing so. Saying that supporting LGBT people conflicts with his religious beliefs shows that he has a pretty obvious prejudice against an entire group of people. He deems their existences and lifestyle to be immoral. Dress it up any way you like, that kind of attitude is not acceptable.

If he chose not to wear the armband because he prefers to show his support in other ways and keep his beliefs private, that would be a different matter. Like players who didn't take the knee between 2020 and 2022 because they felt it wasn't really making a difference - that's a more complicated point of view worthy of discussion. But Morsy has willingly, publicly admitted that he's prejudiced against gay men. That's not on.

And, as others have pointed out, Morsy has worn gambling sponsors on his football shirts before. Where were his precious 'religious beliefs' then? Is gambling not haram? Has gambling not ruined lives and turned people away from Allah in the past? What problem does he have with the rainbow armband that he didn't have with the bookmakers he's promoted in the past? People are pointing out a very blatant example of hypocrisy.

 

[mexico1970]

Right, but the thing is, the problem people have with Morsy isn't that he refused to wear the armband. The problem is his justification for not doing so. Saying that supporting LGBT people conflicts with his religious beliefs shows that he has a pretty obvious prejudice against an entire group of people. He deems their existences and lifestyle to be immoral. Dress it up any way you like, that kind of attitude is not acceptable.

If he chose not to wear the armband because he prefers to show his support in other ways and keep his beliefs private, that would be a different matter. Like players who didn't take the knee between 2020 and 2022 because they felt it wasn't really making a difference - that's a more complicated point of view worthy of discussion. Morsy has willingly, publicly admitted that he's prejudiced against gay men. That's not on.

And, as others have pointed out, Morsy has worn gambling sponsors on his football shirts before. Where were his precious 'religious beliefs' then? Is gambling not haram? Has gambling not ruined lives and turned people away from Allah in the past? What problem does he have with the rainbow armband that he didn't have with the bookmakers he's promoted in the past? People are pointing out a very blatant example of hypocrisy.

I couldn't care about Islam or religion it's all hypercritical, nobody said that footballers are selected from the gene pool of geniuses and they say and do things that others may not like.

One ideology clashes with another, I say they fight and see who comes out on top. All I said was that if someone told me to wear rainbow vomit, a cross, a poppy or any other symbol I would say no on principle.

 

[Mon Autre]

It was YOU that made the comparison and brought him into the argument

Actually it wasn't. I was responding to someone else who brought James McClean into the discussion and I think I made it very clear why he's a total irrelevance in this conversation.

 

[youngbob]

I couldn't care about Islam or religion it's all hypercritical, nobody said that footballers are selected from the gene pool of geniuses and they say and do things that others may not like.

One ideology clashes with another, I say they fight and see who comes out on top. All I said was that if someone told me to wear rainbow vomit, a cross, a poppy or any other symbol I would say no on principle.

But this is where you're making a big mistake and not really understanding the situation. Homosexuality and Islam aren't both ideologies. One is a sexuality, something a person is born with, and the other is an organised faith someone might choose to follow. They're not two equal things clashing - one is a matter of someone's biological make-up, the other is a set of beliefs they've adopted. One's nature, one's nurture. Surely you can see the difference?

 

[Lauz9888]

I don't think players should be compelled to wear anything that symbolises a message they disagree with.

But at the same time I think it's fine to criticise the fact they disagree with it.

If the league did a match week where players wore Kick It Out logos to speak out against racism in football (as they have done before) a player who refused to get involved in that would be asked to justify his stance and people would form their opinions of him off the back of that. I don't see it as any different. Race and sexuality are both characteristics that a person can't change about themselves and shouldn't be discriminated against for.

The rainbow armband isn't a declaration that you or your religion approve of homosexuality. It's an acknowledgement that some people are gay, some gay people like football, and they should be able to enjoy football without being abused. Homophobia is even sometimes used to target people who aren't gay, based on lazy, outdated stereotypes. The rainbow armband is just a nod towards the idea that some people in a particular group still face barriers to watching and playing football as a result of targeted abuse, and it's a small symbol of a sentiment that that abuse shouldn't have a place in football. It says nothing about your sexuality or your opinion of the sexuality of others.

They're free to not wear the rainbow. It's not and shouldn't be compulsory. But they can't complain if them not wearing it is understood to be an explicit endorsement of prejudice and abuse, and if people's opinions of them change as a result of that.

Ironically, I think writing "I love Jesus" on the rainbow armband comes across as a bit...well, gay.

 

[Bournemouth Blue]

I’m a straight man of 69 living happily with a wife and not far from 6 lovely grandkids. I have a nephew who is gay, but he can’t help it. If I wore a rainbow arm band, even in a place like Bournemouth which is gay tolerant, though not as much as Brighton, I would probably receive abuse every time I walked into the town centre. So better not to get involved, i would rather my nephew is Gay than supports Liverpool, Arsenal or Man U.