New CL Format Thoughts

Apologies if it’s been asked already but if we finish 17-24, are we guaranteed to be home first leg or is it 50/50?
 
Brugge have done well to get 11pts so far - beaten Villa, Sporting, Prague and drawn against Celtic and Juventus.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Yes, as in the change of format isn't the reason we're struggling. But granted if we go out, that would be us and RB Leipzig that I'd be surprised about. So just 2 shocks.

AC Milan and Newcastle went out in the same group last year, jeopardy is the one argument that can't really be had with the new format, qualification is definitely easier.

If we win next week, we're through, which with 3 wins from 8 games is a farce to be honest.
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As it stands, us and RB Leipzig are out and the play-offs read like this...

Aston Villa v Vfb Stuttgart
Monaco v Sporting
Feyernoord v PSG
Lille v Benfica
Brest v Club Bruges
Borussia Dortmund v PSV Eindhoven
Bayern Munich v Celtic
Real Madrid v Juventus

The last 16, if those ties went as many would expect could read...

Liverpool v Real Madrid
Barcelona v Bayern Munich
Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
Inter Milan v Brest
Atletico Madrid v Benfica
AC Milan v PSG
Atalanta v Sporting
Bayer Leverkusen v Aston Villa

I appreciate that it's difficult for one of the bigger clubs to find a way out at the league stage, we've done our best but will probably beat Club Bruges and fall just short of elimination, but the jeopardy is in the placings and taking your chance with a play off round. If the league were to stay as it is, most of the 8 ties are really good matches and then the last 16 above is as good as any I can remember. The probability is that we'll be in the knockouts to make it even more exciting.

There's a lot wrong with the format as it is now, but a lack of jeopardy isn't one of them.

You cited Newcastle and AC Milan going out in the group stage last season but you and I both know that the strength of their group F was not the norm, kind of like our Ajax, Borussia Dortmund and Real Madrid. In other years, we got bored of playing Shakhtar Donestk regularly and the likes of Viktoria Plzen on the odd occasion.
 
Bluekiwi said:
It is no longer the CHAMPIONS league - it is simply a European league brought into existence because of the proposed Super League.
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It has never been a CHAMPIONS League. Never, ever, ever as far as I'm aware. - Unless they put in a group stage for champions only in the early 1990s.
It was the European Cup for champions and holders only and then became the CL for champions and runners up and others. The holders didn't even qualify automatically as UEFA thought any team good enough to win it would qualify from their league. However that rule changed when Liverpool won it in 2005.
We're only about five years away from it including non-champions for the same length of time as the original format.
 
Cellarite said:
As it stands, us and RB Leipzig are out and the play-offs read like this...

Aston Villa v Vfb Stuttgart
Monaco v Sporting
Feyernoord v PSG
Lille v Benfica
Brest v Club Bruges
Borussia Dortmund v PSV Eindhoven
Bayern Munich v Celtic
Real Madrid v Juventus

The last 16, if those ties went as many would expect could read...

Liverpool v Real Madrid
Barcelona v Bayern Munich
Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
Inter Milan v Brest
Atletico Madrid v Benfica
AC Milan v PSG
Atalanta v Sporting
Bayer Leverkusen v Aston Villa

I appreciate that it's difficult for one of the bigger clubs to find a way out at the league stage, we've done our best but will probably beat Club Bruges and fall just short of elimination, but the jeopardy is in the placings and taking your chance with a play off round. If the league were to stay as it is, most of the 8 ties are really good matches and then the last 16 above is as good as any I can remember. The probability is that we'll be in the knockouts to make it even more exciting.

There's a lot wrong with the format as it is now, but a lack of jeopardy isn't one of them.

You cited Newcastle and AC Milan going out in the group stage last season but you and I both know that the strength of their group F was not the norm, kind of like our Ajax, Borussia Dortmund and Real Madrid. In other years, we got bored of playing Shakhtar Donestk regularly and the likes of Viktoria Plzen on the odd occasion.
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Those playoff and last 16 scenarios aren't correct, they even had to turn that into entertainment, the draw format will be:

9/10 v 23/24 v 7/8
11/12 v 21/22 v 5/6
13/14 v 19/20 v 3/4
15/16 v 17/18 v 1/2

We won't agree because there are so many things I dislike about the new format. It's new and changed things up, so people are interested it won't last more than 5, maybe 10 years though.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Those playoff and last 16 scenarios aren't correct, they even had to turn that into entertainment, the draw format will be:

9/10 v 23/24 v 7/8
11/12 v 21/22 v 5/6
13/14 v 19/20 v 3/4
15/16 v 17/18 v 1/2

We won't agree because there are so many things I dislike about the new format. It's new and changed things up, so people are interested it won't last more than 5, maybe 10 years though.
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It's there or there abouts though.

It looks like we won't agree. I'm not saying I like the format but there are pros and cons. Every match day so far, I've looked across the fixtures of all three competitions and seen matches that have really appealed to me. I can't remember fixture lists in Europe looking so good for years. I also like the fact that clubs who don't usually progress appear to have more chance to do so. I noticed very early on that Celtic had a really good chance of the play offs.

The jeopardy thing is a difficult thing to argue one way or another. Yes, we've been shit and the early games made it feel like the result didn't matter because we'd have plenty of chances to sort it out. Where I think the jeopardy comes in is when the play offs and last 16 draws are clear, some huge clubs will be looking back and regretting dropping points that they should've won. It's only then that the real cost of us throwing away the 3-0 lead against Feyernoord will be known. We might get lucky and avoid the big guns because so many are outside of the top 8 but a few enormous clubs will fall at the play off stage or the last 16 because they didn't realise the value of trying to win as many league matches as possible. I think lessons will be learned next season.

Good debate though mate.
 
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:
As we can't finish higher than 19th mate we are 100% guaranteed to be at home 1st pal
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Yes, thanks. I’m aware we’re not going to finish in the top half.

Was just after clarifying that 9-16 are guaranteed home ties in the second leg of the play off, rather than it being drawn.
 
Huge sense of ennui watching our games so far - knowing it didn’t really matter win lose draw as long as we picked up a few points here there. The only game with any jeopardy is next week. Absolute clown show of a format.
It should be simple: European Cup, champions only , names in a hat - off you go. None of this seeded group stage top five league places bollocks. But that ship sailed a long time ago. Sadly.
 
hammocity said:
I think it's impossible for us to qualify in 24th place.
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Correct, although we can finish 23rd which is essentially the same thing due to the groupings:
9/10 v 23/24 v 7/8

Currently down to 27th can still qualify:
1000017974.jpg
Last games:
PSV v Liverpool
Man City v Club Brugge
Juventus v Benfica
VfB Stuttgart v PSG
Sporting v Bologna

So to qualify we have to beat Brugge to go above them and in turn guaranteed to surpass PSG or Stuttgart. So 23rd is the worst we can do if we win.

Given a top 4 of Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal and Inter, 13th to 20th is a poison chalice for the last 16.

I'd rather finish 21st-24th, take our risk in the playoff round and hope we get our shit together.

...still have to beat Brugge though.
 
johnnytapia said:
Huge sense of ennui watching our games so far - knowing it didn’t really matter win lose draw as long as we picked up a few points here there. The only game with any jeopardy is next week. Absolute clown show of a format.
It should be simple: European Cup, champions only , names in a hat - off you go. None of this seeded group stage top five league places bollocks. But that ship sailed a long time ago. Sadly.
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Agreed, I said before the games even started, that a lot of top teams wouldn't care until the playoffs. Its just come for us a game earlier as we've been especially shit (we'd be out in the old format).

Even finishing top 8 doesn't have a lot of appeal other than skipping 2 games, the top sides still fancy themselves in the playoffs.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Correct, although we can finish 23rd which is essentially the same thing due to the groupings:
9/10 v 23/24 v 7/8

Currently down to 27th can still qualify:
View attachment 144268
Last games:
PSV v Liverpool
Man City v Club Brugge
Juventus v Benfica
VfB Stuttgart v PSG
Sporting v Bologna

So to qualify we have to beat Brugge to go above them and in turn guaranteed to surpass PSG or Stuttgart. So 23rd is the worst we can do if we win.

Given a top 4 of Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal and Inter, 13th to 20th is a poison chalice for the last 16.

I'd rather finish 21st-24th, take our risk in the playoff round and hope we get our shit together.

...still have to beat Brugge though.
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We go above Brugge and Stuttgart play PSG so one of them drops below us as does Bruges, if that game is a draw we go above both of them due to GD, so 22nd is the minimum if we beat Brugge and that's not factoring in PSV, Benfica and Sporting.
 
hammocity said:
We go above Brugge and Stuttgart play PSG so one of them drops below us as does Bruges, if that game is a draw we go above both of them due to GD, so 22nd is the minimum if we beat Brugge and that's not factoring in PSV, Benfica and Sporting.
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It would still be 23rd at worse if we win, as one of let's say Brugge and Stuttgart would drop to 25th and the other to 24th.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Correct, although we can finish 23rd which is essentially the same thing due to the groupings:
9/10 v 23/24 v 7/8

Currently down to 27th can still qualify:
View attachment 144268
Last games:
PSV v Liverpool
Man City v Club Brugge
Juventus v Benfica
VfB Stuttgart v PSG
Sporting v Bologna

So to qualify we have to beat Brugge to go above them and in turn guaranteed to surpass PSG or Stuttgart. So 23rd is the worst we can do if we win.

Given a top 4 of Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal and Inter, 13th to 20th is a poison chalice for the last 16.

I'd rather finish 21st-24th, take our risk in the playoff round and hope we get our shit together.

...still have to beat Brugge though.
Click to expand...
PSG play Stuttgart, so if we beat Brugge we are likely to finish 23rd.
 
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