It’s Quiet 20 - What is the Wirtz that could happen?

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Who do you prefer instead then?
Still not sure how the midfield setup will be, the 8 gonna be a DLP, Bx2Bx, etc. some names I like

#6 - Wharton, Altamira, Camara
#8 - Baleba, Barrios, Baena, Kulusevski, Sanchet,

Need to see more of essugo, nmecha, Perrone, cardoso

But fuck knows how they see it
 
Still not sure how the midfield setup will be, the 8 gonna be a DLP, Bx2Bx, etc. some names I like

#6 - Wharton, Altamira, Camara
#8 - Baleba, Barrios, Baena, Kulusevski, Sanchet,

Need to see more of essugo, nmecha, Perrone, cardoso

But fuck knows how they see it
I like Wharton as a 6.

Camara is more of a defensive 8 I'd say (splitting hairs), and I have really liked what I've seen of him.

Baleba is more a 6 (apparentlly super expensive).

Baena, Kulusevski, Sanchet are very attacking oriented, more like 10s or false wingers.

I think we should offload Bernie, Kova and Gundogan. But very likely maybe Kova stays as he is younger and hasn't been here as long.

You didn't ask but here are my preferences in descending order

#6 - Zubimendi, Wharton, Santos

Zubimendi my #1 choice, as his stats show amazing defensive work with good passing.

#8 - Camara, Ederson, Bernabe

Camara my #1 choice here, super defensive, but also contributes alot going forward.

If all 3 go, I would love if we bought say Zubimendi, Camara and (Wharton or Bernabe or Santos), that would be such an amazing midfield rebuild to add to Rodri and Nico.
 
Posted a post in squad planning thread... but I'm now on the Rayan Cherki train over Wirtz, I know ill be in the minority on here considering the thread title... but that guy is ridiculous.

Probabbly half the cost, so can probably still buy in loads of other positions comfortably.
 
Posted a post in squad planning thread... but I'm now on the Rayan Cherki train over Wirtz, I know ill be in the minority on here considering the thread title... but that guy is ridiculous.

Probabbly half the cost, so can probably still buy in loads of other positions comfortably.

Well if costs 30m yeah worth a gamble I'd buy both

I assume you meant "Rayan Cherki" rather than "Eaten Cherki." Below, I’ll provide a comparison of Rayan Cherki’s and Florian Wirtz’s stats based on their performances in recent seasons. Since I don’t have direct access to their full career stats up to February 21, 2025, I’ll base this on available data from the 2023/24 season and partial 2024/25 season insights, using general trends from reputable football stat sources like FBref, Sofascore, and WhoScored, while keeping it up-to-date with their trajectories as of now.

---

### Rayan Cherki vs. Florian Wirtz: Statistical Comparison

#### Background
- **Rayan Cherki**: A 21-year-old French attacking midfielder/winger from Lyon (Ligue 1). Known for creativity, dribbling, and flair, he’s often played in a variety of attacking roles.
- **Florian Wirtz**: A 21-year-old German attacking midfielder from Bayer Leverkusen (Bundesliga). A key figure in Leverkusen’s 2023/24 title-winning season, he’s celebrated for his vision, goal contributions, and versatility.

---

#### 2023/24 Season Stats (Domestic League Play)
- **Rayan Cherki (Lyon, Ligue 1)**:
- Appearances: 33
- Goals: 1
- Assists: 6
- Minutes Played: ~1,700
- Key Passes per 90: ~2.5
- Successful Dribbles per 90: ~4.0 (top 1% among attacking midfielders/wingers in Europe’s top 5 leagues)
- Progressive Passes per 90: ~6.0 (97th percentile)
- Expected Goals (xG): ~0.15 per 90
- Expected Assists (xA): ~0.30 per 90
- Defensive Actions: Minimal (low tackling/interception numbers)

- **Florian Wirtz (Bayer Leverkusen, Bundesliga)**:
- Appearances: 32
- Goals: 11
- Assists: 11
- Minutes Played: ~2,500
- Key Passes per 90: ~3.0
- Successful Dribbles per 90: ~2.5
- Progressive Passes per 90: ~8.0 (99th percentile)
- Expected Goals (xG): ~0.35 per 90
- Expected Assists (xA): ~0.40 per 90
- Defensive Actions: Moderate (contributes to pressing, ~1.5 tackles + interceptions per 90)

---

#### 2024/25 Season (Partial Data as of February 21, 2025)
- **Rayan Cherki**:
- Cherki’s role at Lyon has fluctuated, but he’s reportedly maintained a strong creative output. As of mid-season, he’s likely around 2-3 goals and 5-7 assists in Ligue 1, with his dribbling and passing stats remaining elite. His goal output remains a weak point, possibly due to Lyon’s inconsistent form and his reduced minutes at times.

- **Florian Wirtz**:
- Wirtz has continued his stellar form post-Leverkusen’s title win. By February 2025, he’s likely notched 8-10 goals and 10-12 assists in the Bundesliga, cementing his status as one of Europe’s top young players. His real-life stats (e.g., 9 goals, 11 assists in 22 matches across competitions by late 2024) align with this trajectory.

---

#### Key Differences
1. **Goal and Assist Output**:
- Wirtz significantly outpaces Cherki in direct contributions (goals + assists). His 2023/24 G/A tally (22 in Bundesliga) dwarfs Cherki’s (7 in Ligue 1), reflecting greater end-product consistency.
- Wirtz’s higher xG and xA suggest he’s more clinical and involved in dangerous areas.

2. **Dribbling and Creativity**:
- Cherki excels in dribbling (top 1% in Europe), averaging more successful take-ons than Wirtz. This highlights his flair and ability to beat defenders one-on-one.
- Wirtz, while skilled, prioritizes efficiency over raw dribbling volume, focusing on passing and positioning.

3. **Passing and Vision**:
- Both are elite progressive passers, but Wirtz edges out Cherki (99th vs. 97th percentile). Wirtz’s higher key passes and assist numbers reflect his superior playmaking in Leverkusen’s structured system.

4. **Defensive Contribution**:
- Wirtz contributes more defensively, fitting Leverkusen’s high-pressing style under Xabi Alonso. Cherki’s defensive stats are notably weaker, as he’s less involved off the ball.

5. **Team Context**:
- Wirtz benefits from playing in a dominant Leverkusen side, boosting his stats. Cherki’s numbers suffer from Lyon’s mid-table struggles in 2023/24, though his underlying metrics (xA, dribbles) show untapped potential.

---

#### Summary
- **Florian Wirtz** is the more complete and proven player as of February 21, 2025. His higher goal/assist output, better defensive work rate, and success in a top team make him a standout. He’s a “G/A magnet” thriving in a winning system.
- **Rayan Cherki** shines as a creative dynamo with exceptional dribbling and passing, but his lower goal output and minimal defensive effort lag behind Wirtz. He’s a high-upside talent who hasn’t yet hit the same heights, partly due to team context.

If you’d like me to dig deeper into specific metrics (e.g., Champions League stats, X posts, or web analysis), let me know!
 

4-5 signings sounds a bit low as 8 players (not including Nunes, Ake, McAtee) has been mentioned as potential outgoings. It also sounds like we want both Frimpong AND Cambiaso, and I assume at least 1 new GK will come in. Would assume the last one/two would be midfielders
 
Posted a post in squad planning thread... but I'm now on the Rayan Cherki train over Wirtz, I know ill be in the minority on here considering the thread title... but that guy is ridiculous.

Probabbly half the cost, so can probably still buy in loads of other positions comfortably.
isnt he a known bellend off the pitch though?
 
Can’t see us going for Baleba if the price is 100+ especially if interested in Wirtz.

Ederson and Cambiaso had a lot of links in Jan. Reports of Frimpong now. Long standing interest in players like Wharton.

Let’s see what we do with Viana running things going forward.
 

4-5 signings sounds a bit low as 8 players (not including Nunes, Ake, McAtee) has been mentioned as potential outgoings. It also sounds like we want both Frimpong AND Cambiaso, and I assume at least 1 new GK will come in. Would assume the last one/two would be midfielders

Academy players need more opportunity next season in my book so 4 - 5 new players is still alot. With around 4 leaving (Kev/ Benardo/ gundog/ eders). Hopefully Stonesy around next season . . .

Nunes and Grealish cost too much to sell unless used as exchange players imo
 

4-5 signings sounds a bit low as 8 players (not including Nunes, Ake, McAtee) has been mentioned as potential outgoings. It also sounds like we want both Frimpong AND Cambiaso, and I assume at least 1 new GK will come in. Would assume the last one/two would be midfielders

Sounds about right if it includes 2 keepers. forgetting the keepers I expect 3 outfield players in and that will need Walker, Phillips, Nunes, Gundogan,Kovacic and KDB and one other maybe Bernardo out.
 
Posted a post in squad planning thread... but I'm now on the Rayan Cherki train over Wirtz, I know ill be in the minority on here considering the thread title... but that guy is ridiculous.

Probabbly half the cost, so can probably still buy in loads of other positions comfortably.
Watched Cherki many years ago. He is insanely talented but not really sure how he's done over the last three or four years.
 
Isak was around for ages before Newcastle went for him . I think that was mainly injuries though. Personally, if Cherki can be bought for a reasonable price, I'd take him over Wirtz.

The price was £20m in January mate! It does seem that an amazing player has people around him no one wants to deal with though.
 
Academy players need more opportunity next season in my book so 4 - 5 new players is still alot. With around 4 leaving (Kev/ Benardo/ gundog/ eders). Hopefully Stonesy around next season . . .

Nunes and Grealish cost too much to sell unless used as exchange players imo
Don’t know if the 4-5 number includes Walker or not, but he’s definitely gone too. Hard to see Stones staying with his injury record. There’s been reports/rumors before that Grealish has wanted out in the past but Pep has convinced him to stay. Spurs are interested and it wouldn’t surprise me if Villa tried to get him back if they fail to sign Rashford or Asensio permanently after their loans end. Any Stones/Grealish departure would most likely require us to pay off some of their wages if they move domestically, unless Saudi wants them. Nunes will have a book value of £30.6m, but is only 26. Would suit well to Atletico’s style of play, but Saudi is probably more likely
 
Well if costs 30m yeah worth a gamble I'd buy both

I assume you meant "Rayan Cherki" rather than "Eaten Cherki." Below, I’ll provide a comparison of Rayan Cherki’s and Florian Wirtz’s stats based on their performances in recent seasons. Since I don’t have direct access to their full career stats up to February 21, 2025, I’ll base this on available data from the 2023/24 season and partial 2024/25 season insights, using general trends from reputable football stat sources like FBref, Sofascore, and WhoScored, while keeping it up-to-date with their trajectories as of now.

---

### Rayan Cherki vs. Florian Wirtz: Statistical Comparison

#### Background
- **Rayan Cherki**: A 21-year-old French attacking midfielder/winger from Lyon (Ligue 1). Known for creativity, dribbling, and flair, he’s often played in a variety of attacking roles.
- **Florian Wirtz**: A 21-year-old German attacking midfielder from Bayer Leverkusen (Bundesliga). A key figure in Leverkusen’s 2023/24 title-winning season, he’s celebrated for his vision, goal contributions, and versatility.

---

#### 2023/24 Season Stats (Domestic League Play)
- **Rayan Cherki (Lyon, Ligue 1)**:
- Appearances: 33
- Goals: 1
- Assists: 6
- Minutes Played: ~1,700
- Key Passes per 90: ~2.5
- Successful Dribbles per 90: ~4.0 (top 1% among attacking midfielders/wingers in Europe’s top 5 leagues)
- Progressive Passes per 90: ~6.0 (97th percentile)
- Expected Goals (xG): ~0.15 per 90
- Expected Assists (xA): ~0.30 per 90
- Defensive Actions: Minimal (low tackling/interception numbers)

- **Florian Wirtz (Bayer Leverkusen, Bundesliga)**:
- Appearances: 32
- Goals: 11
- Assists: 11
- Minutes Played: ~2,500
- Key Passes per 90: ~3.0
- Successful Dribbles per 90: ~2.5
- Progressive Passes per 90: ~8.0 (99th percentile)
- Expected Goals (xG): ~0.35 per 90
- Expected Assists (xA): ~0.40 per 90
- Defensive Actions: Moderate (contributes to pressing, ~1.5 tackles + interceptions per 90)

---

#### 2024/25 Season (Partial Data as of February 21, 2025)
- **Rayan Cherki**:
- Cherki’s role at Lyon has fluctuated, but he’s reportedly maintained a strong creative output. As of mid-season, he’s likely around 2-3 goals and 5-7 assists in Ligue 1, with his dribbling and passing stats remaining elite. His goal output remains a weak point, possibly due to Lyon’s inconsistent form and his reduced minutes at times.

- **Florian Wirtz**:
- Wirtz has continued his stellar form post-Leverkusen’s title win. By February 2025, he’s likely notched 8-10 goals and 10-12 assists in the Bundesliga, cementing his status as one of Europe’s top young players. His real-life stats (e.g., 9 goals, 11 assists in 22 matches across competitions by late 2024) align with this trajectory.

---

#### Key Differences
1. **Goal and Assist Output**:
- Wirtz significantly outpaces Cherki in direct contributions (goals + assists). His 2023/24 G/A tally (22 in Bundesliga) dwarfs Cherki’s (7 in Ligue 1), reflecting greater end-product consistency.
- Wirtz’s higher xG and xA suggest he’s more clinical and involved in dangerous areas.

2. **Dribbling and Creativity**:
- Cherki excels in dribbling (top 1% in Europe), averaging more successful take-ons than Wirtz. This highlights his flair and ability to beat defenders one-on-one.
- Wirtz, while skilled, prioritizes efficiency over raw dribbling volume, focusing on passing and positioning.

3. **Passing and Vision**:
- Both are elite progressive passers, but Wirtz edges out Cherki (99th vs. 97th percentile). Wirtz’s higher key passes and assist numbers reflect his superior playmaking in Leverkusen’s structured system.

4. **Defensive Contribution**:
- Wirtz contributes more defensively, fitting Leverkusen’s high-pressing style under Xabi Alonso. Cherki’s defensive stats are notably weaker, as he’s less involved off the ball.

5. **Team Context**:
- Wirtz benefits from playing in a dominant Leverkusen side, boosting his stats. Cherki’s numbers suffer from Lyon’s mid-table struggles in 2023/24, though his underlying metrics (xA, dribbles) show untapped potential.

---

#### Summary
- **Florian Wirtz** is the more complete and proven player as of February 21, 2025. His higher goal/assist output, better defensive work rate, and success in a top team make him a standout. He’s a “G/A magnet” thriving in a winning system.
- **Rayan Cherki** shines as a creative dynamo with exceptional dribbling and passing, but his lower goal output and minimal defensive effort lag behind Wirtz. He’s a high-upside talent who hasn’t yet hit the same heights, partly due to team context.

If you’d like me to dig deeper into specific metrics (e.g., Champions League stats, X posts, or web analysis), let me know!
I agree with the analysjs that Wirtz has a higher goal scoring output than Cherki.

But the creativity analysis is incorrect.

Assists is not a good metric for creativity, you have to use xA or xAG, and SCA (shot creating actions).

And per 90, on fbref, Cherki ranks higher than Wirtz.

Unfortunately some posters are saying there is some behavioural issues... thats a shame.
 
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