Russian invasion of Ukraine

inbetween said:
I think sometimes we have to remember that this isn't Call of Duty and as we gauge our reactions we have to realise that sending us all to war is becoming a very real prospect. This isn't about posting on Twitter or the Bluemoon forum anymore, this is about war.

Do you want to send yourself and your sons and daughters to fight in Ukraine? War is utter hell and we must find any way to avoid it. Anyone who simply says that we must help Ukraine no matter the cost is utterly crazy.

The middle ground, calm and sensibility has never been more important, humanity itself may even depend upon it.
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You are Neville Chamberlain and I claim my £10
 
Why don’t Europe do a counter offer to Ukraine for 25% of their minerals just to piss off Trump, not that they want them but just to see the orange man explode.
 
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HelloCity said:
If Zelensky accepted that, Trump would just withdraw support anyway and leave Ukraine with a completely one sided deal.
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It’s staggering to think how trumps mind works (or doesn’t work).

The only thing I would think of if I was Zelensky is giving US firms access creates a need for US protection. But it’s coercive as fuck.
 
Bazzmand Show said:


This is just an insane position, is he suggesting that if a foreign country invaded the US, the citizens should not fight back?
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Wouldn’t it be refreshing to hear the interviewer say “ is that a serious question “ or “ if China and N Korea invaded the States, would you simply hand over the keys?”

Musk is absolute garbage and needs taking out along with Tango man. There are enough people with guns in the States, hopefully one gets pointed accurately in their direction soon.
 
metalblue said:
It’s staggering to think how trumps mind works (or doesn’t work).

The only thing I would think of if I was Zelensky is giving US firms access creates a need for US protection. But it’s coercive as fuck.
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I considered that, but once they’ve sucked the country dry what then? You can’t make deals on this basis, too much hostage to fortune and with other preconditions like disarmament, no European involvement either commercially or militarily you are exposed to further aggression.

Doing a deal with the EU for shared mineral rights in return for funding and investment to rebuild the country and European forces acting as a peacekeeping force would be preferable and even then there is an element of coercion.

Ukraine like Europe has to determine its own path and future and both need to do this without the US or Russia. This is our home and if we can’t determine what happens in our home we are sunk.
 
inbetween said:
Do you want to send yourself and your sons and daughters to fight in Ukraine? War is utter hell and we must find any way to avoid it. Anyone who simply says that we must help Ukraine no matter the cost is utterly crazy.

The middle ground, calm and sensibility has never been more important, humanity itself may even depend upon it
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It's not at all obvious that appeasement of Russia makes it ultimately less likely that our sons and daughters will end up in a war.

Neither is it obvious that what is being suggested is "middle ground" or even that "middle ground" between a fascist tyranny and a free democracy is the best endpoint.
 
TinFoilHat said:
Hilary and her mates fucked him over. He would have crushed trump but was far too progressive for Pelosi etc as his policies meant they would lose money too.
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I think you're living in dreamland if you actually think that is what would have happened in the past. The US population in general is anti-Socialist.
That said after 4 years of Trump destroying the US, and turning it into a Fascist country, who knows what would happen in the future.
 
Well the New York Post today has taken Donald Trump to the wood-shed in no uncertain terms. Yesterday it was Mark Levine of all people.

Today General Kellogg, Trump's point-man, praised President Zelensky "the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war...".

General Kellogg received the Silver Star, Bronze Star (Valor) and Air Medal (Valor) for combat during the Vietnam War. Let's hope it makes him more appreciative of the sacrifices of the Ukrainian people than Cadet Bone Spurs.

"First Lieutenant (Infantry) Joseph Keith Kellogg, United States Army, was awarded the Silver Star for gallantry in action while serving with the 101st Airborne Division during Operation EAGLE THRUST in the Republic of Vietnam. During an air assault, Lieutenant Kellogg pulled a wounded man from a fire line, then went on to attack an enemy bunker system with a machine gun. Running down the line, he destroyed five enemy bunkers with hand grenades. His gallant actions and dedicated devotion to duty, without regard for his own life, were in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army."

He fought in two tours during the Vietnam War, where he earned the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with "V" device, and the Air Medal with "V" device. He served as the Commander of the 82nd Airborne Division from 1997 to 1998.

Kellogg’s wife, Paige, is a former 82nd Airborne Division paratrooper and a veteran of the 1983 Grenada invasion.

Here is an interview he did with Voice of America July 25, 2024. Very pro-Ukrainian. Worth a read.

www.voanews.com

Former Trump NSC official explains his vision for ending war in Ukraine

Ret. Lt. General Keith Kellogg spoke to VOA about how he thinks a US president can help end Russia’s war on Ukraine
www.voanews.com www.voanews.com
 
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