President Trump

Haalands Agent said:
You need to go and read some history if you think the attack by Russia was unprovoked. America agreed not to enlarge NATO one inch East towards Russia when Germany was reunified. Then we had Victoria Neuland in 2014 and the coup in Ukraine and then we had the offer from Germany for Ukraine to join NATO to site just three reasons.
So If say a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina for example, despite Russia agreeing never to do such a thing. And then over a few years the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
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You are wrong.

The "not one inch east" comment used by US secretary of state James Baker was not in relation to NATO accepting new members. Those nations were at the time still in the warsaw pact or under USSR occupation, which hadnt collapsed yet.

The "not one inch east" was specifically in relation to a unified Germany and an informal discussion to not move NATO Troops or command infrastructure into East Germany so to reduce fears of conflict during early conversations with the USSR, as there were still almost 400k soldiers in the GDR at this time. Later that same month President Bush amended this, as part of the 'Two Plus Four Agreement', realising it would affect German security and included the ability to move assets into the GDR but with restrictions and only after all USSR military had left, which would take years. The USSR was even given billions by Germany to finance this withdrawal. The USSR agreed to this treaty, including accepting a unified Germany being in NATO.

It was only after the USSR collapsed they started trying to rewrite history by twisting outdated informal words from someone with little authority to suit an agenda that only existed in a time after they were spoken. This is why they have no evidence of this "deal" ever existing.

Euromaidan uprising was not a coup, the country and their parliament removed and voted out a rogue president who betrayed their country doing the opposite of what they were elected to enact due to Russia directly influencing him, he fled to Russia after being removed. There has been a election since where they overwhelming backed this chosen path, so irrelevant point.

Ukraine can join NATO if it wants since there is no agreement stopping them, another irrelevant point. biolabs, another lie.
 
Haalands Agent said:
You need to go and read some history if you think the attack by Russia was unprovoked. America agreed not to enlarge NATO one inch East towards Russia when Germany was reunified. Then we had Victoria Neuland in 2014 and the coup in Ukraine and then we had the offer from Germany for Ukraine to join NATO to site just three reasons.
So If say a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina for example, despite Russia agreeing never to do such a thing. And then over a few years the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
Click to expand...
American perfidy, European sycophancy, Ukrainian naivety are another three reasons for this mess.
 
Haalands Agent said:
You need to go and read some history if you think the attack by Russia was unprovoked. America agreed not to enlarge NATO one inch East towards Russia when Germany was reunified.
Click to expand...
I see this lie repeated again and again. Where? When? Show me one piece of meaningful and verifiable evidence that this agreement was provided in material terms.

I’m all ears.
 
Uptop said:
You are wrong.

The "not one inch east" comment used by US secretary of state James Baker was not in relation to NATO accepting new members. Those nations were at the time still in the warsaw pact or under USSR occupation, which hadnt collapsed yet.

The "not one inch east" was specifically in relation to a unified Germany and an informal discussion to not move NATO Troops or command infrastructure into East Germany so to reduce fears of conflict during early conversations with the USSR, as there were still almost 400k soldiers in the GDR at this time. Later that same month President Bush amended this, as part of the 'Two Plus Four Agreement', realising it would affect German security and included the ability to move assets into the GDR but with restrictions and only after all USSR military had left, which would take years. The USSR was even given billions by Germany to finance this withdrawal. The USSR agreed to this treaty, including accepting a unified Germany being in NATO.

It was only after the USSR collapsed they started trying to rewrite history by twisting outdated informal words from someone with little authority to suit an agenda that only existed in a time after they were spoken. This is why they have no evidence of this "deal" ever existing.

Euromaidan uprising was not a coup, the country and their parliament removed and voted out a rogue president who betrayed their country doing the opposite of what they were elected to enact due to Russia directly influencing him, he fled to Russia after being removed. There has been a election since where they overwhelming backed this chosen path, so irrelevant point.

Ukraine can join NATO if it wants since there is no agreement stopping them, another irrelevant point. biolabs, another lie.
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It’s mental how some ex tempore comment by James Baker has been twisted, weaponised and used as a gaslighting tool to the extent it has. I understand the Russians twisting what was said, because that’s what they do, but the pitiful ease at which others follow this line, without any meaningful evidence to support it is actually mental.

Despite asking many times of many different people on this subject, I’ve never once been presented with a single piece of worthwhile evidence to support this contention, which it should not be forgotten forms the foundation stone of justification for Russian truculence.

Fucking mental that so many daft cunts get fooled into believing this bullshit without any worthwhile evidence being available to support it.
 
Haalands Agent said:
You need to go and read some history if you think the attack by Russia was unprovoked. America agreed not to enlarge NATO one inch East towards Russia when Germany was reunified. Then we had Victoria Neuland in 2014 and the coup in Ukraine and then we had the offer from Germany for Ukraine to join NATO to site just three reasons.
So If say a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina for example, despite Russia agreeing never to do such a thing. And then over a few years the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
Click to expand...
What a total crock of shit.
 
Blue and true said:
Russian tyranny. The only reason this is happening. Or are you going to absolve a dictatorial war-monger of any blame?
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It’s amazes me how the narrative has changed from ‘Russian Invasion’ to ‘Everybody else’s Fault’.

These people are either Russian sympathisers or Russian stooges. Either way, it’s fucking mental how they try to tell you the exact opposite of what has happened.

Crazy bastards!
 
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The Future’s Blue! said:
It’s amazing me how the narrative has changed from ‘Russian Invasion’ to ‘Everybody else’s Fault’.

These people are either Russian sympathisers or Russian stooges. Either way, it’s fucking mental how they try to tell you the exact opposite of what has happened.

Crazy bastards!
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You can literally get people to believe anything nowadays. Ukraine deniers are in the same category as flat earthers. Fucking bonkers.
 
Haalands Agent said:
You need to go and read some history if you think the attack by Russia was unprovoked. America agreed not to enlarge NATO one inch East towards Russia when Germany was reunified. Then we had Victoria Neuland in 2014 and the coup in Ukraine and then we had the offer from Germany for Ukraine to join NATO to site just three reasons.
So If say a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina for example, despite Russia agreeing never to do such a thing. And then over a few years the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
Click to expand...
Give it a rest you moron. You're the one who needs to read some history. When the USSR broke up Ukraine had the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Under the terms of the Budapest Memorandum Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons in exchange for Russia's guarantee to respect its independence and borders. How did that work out?

As for the 'coup' in 2014, then president Viktor Yanukovych turned dictator and became Putin's puppet. He jailed former presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko, curtailed press freedom and presided over widespread corruption in government. In November 2013 he refused to sign an association agreement with the EU under pressure from Putin despite Ukraine's parliament approving it by a huge margin. Protests against him intensified and in February 2014 nearly 100 protestors were killed when government forces opened fire on them. After signing an agreement with the opposition on 21st February Yanukovych immediately fled Kyiv and the following day Ukraine's parliament voted 328-0 to remove him from office because he had abdicated and withdrawn from his constitutional duties. Even some of his own party voted for his removal. They also voted to release Tymoshenko from prison and his own party formally disowned him. On the 24th he fled to Russia via Crimea with the help of Russian forces as confirmed by both Yanukovych and Putin. He now lives in comfortable exile in a house owned by the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs near Moscow all paid for by the Kremlin. Yanukovych was a traitor.

You need to stop believing the lies and bullshit of Putin and his useful idiot Trump. The fact that this is your first post speaks volumes too.
 
Vic said:
Victimhood? Trump's got a task force to root out anti-Christian bias!

By toxic victimhood do you mean taking the side of a victim rather than support for whoever is doing the victimising?
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The right is gonna do what the right is gonna do.

Look on the bright side, all those grievance merchants that have been shouting "Oppressed! Oppressed!" on behalf of whoever's fashionable on the oppressed/oppressor scale, will now have to do a swift hat change to stay relevant coz now there's groups who are actually oppressed! Think of all the wonderful "I told you so" opportunities they'll be for the grifters! Still no worries, the progressive left can depend on all those allies they accumulated in the good times, except oh whoops! They don't have any! Coz they hate them, pissed them off with all those purity tests. I mean! Fuck me! How can you forge common cause with a pleb who can't spell intersectionality! Actually works at a factory farm, drives a diesel and knows the difference between men and women!

Navel-gazing, the politics of the self, of lived experience, that'll save us, and if the great unwashed disagree that's because they're ignorant haters, reactionary bastards, fuck em! We don't need em! Except! Oh shit! We do, aren't we supposed to be, like, on their side?

Leftwing activists less likely to work with political rivals than other UK groups, study finds

Exclusive: Lack of understanding by ‘progressive activists’ of other voting blocs has led to rise of far right, authors argue

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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-work-political-rivals-other-uk-groups-study
 
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