Russian invasion of Ukraine

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mrcunny said:
Learn from our mistakes about buying American arms. We should in future only buy from other countries
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Although i'm very negative about the US at the moment, that doesn't mean things won't be better in the future.
However, it does mean we should be less reliant on any other nation for our own economy/security.

I'm hoping this is just a political blip, and good relations (even maybe better) can resume once the orange gibbon is behind bars or under ground.

My wife is already missing her Moons over Miami from Denny's!
 
fulabeer said:
Although i'm very negative about the US at the moment, that doesn't mean things won't be better in the future.
However, it does mean we should be less reliant on any other nation for our own economy/security.

I'm hoping this is just a political blip, and good relations (even maybe better) can resume once the orange gibbon is behind bars or under ground.

My wife is already missing her Moons over Miami from Denny's!
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The fact that the USA is on a knife's edge - switching between centrist and radical far right every 4 years depending on the price of eggs - means that Europe cannot rely on the US anymore. This will last for at least a decade or more and it will likely get worse, IMO.

There are numerous factors pushing the USA to the right - and few factors countering this phenomenon. The best thing that could happen to the USA is a 1930's style great depression - absent such, I think that the USA is bound to drift further and further right.
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
The fact that the USA is on a knife's edge - switching between centrist and radical far right every 4 years depending on the price of eggs - means that Europe cannot rely on the US anymore. This will last for at least a decade or more and it will likely get worse, IMO.

There are numerous factors pushing the USA to the right - and few factors countering this phenomenon. The best thing that could happen to the USA is a 1930's style great depression - absent such, I think that the USA is bound to drift further and further right.
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Not sure what the world needs at the moment
 
fulabeer said:
Although i'm very negative about the US at the moment, that doesn't mean things won't be better in the future.
However, it does mean we should be less reliant on any other nation for our own economy/security.

I'm hoping this is just a political blip, and good relations (even maybe better) can resume once the orange gibbon is behind bars or under ground.

My wife is already missing her Moons over Miami from Denny's!
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Why do you think American voters elect elderly gentlemen (I’m trying not to be rude) for their president, Biden wasn’t exactly helpful towards Ukraine with his many rules not allowing Ukraine to return fire over the border and retaliate inside Russia.?
 
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Stuff 22/02:
www.dailykos.com

Russian stuff blowing up: US considers cutting off Starlink service to Ukraine

Is Ukraine preparing for a new push in the Kursk region? This info comes from Russian sources. Troebortnoye is northwest of the area in Kursk that Ukraine occupies. The Kursk nuclear power plant is way too far to be a realistic objective. More likely...
www.dailykos.com

Poland and Lithuania pay the bill. A breach of contract court case for sure in each country.
Europe would probably hit Starlink with a massive fine if Musk did what was suggested. Maybe a mopolistic practices case - though how quickly this might happen may be an issue.
That said Ukraine has been planning ahead and has alternatives now.
 
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Kirkstall Blue said:
Why do you think American voters elect elderly gentlemen (I’m trying not to be rude) for their president, Biden wasn’t exactly helpful towards Ukraine with his many rules not allowing Ukraine to return fire over the border and retaliate inside Russia.?
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I think they were being cautious (in my opinion, too cautious). I think they had to prevent an over reaction.
I personally think Biden was a poor President for the US and the Ukraine. I cannot think of a memorable thing he did.

However, we don't know about any "back channel" communications.
Something must have been going on as certain buildings from both side haven't been targeted. Then the bridge attacks stopped.
The frustrating thing is Putin is on his arse. If there was ever a time to finish him, it is now.
I think more funding would do the job before Xmas.
 
I see A member of the US administration has said that F35s in Europe can't be flown without US permission.
Bullying on another level.
Does Trumpy know how badly hit US arms manufacturers would be if that came to pass.
Dark times indeed.
 
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roubaixtuesday said:
It's not at all obvious that appeasement of Russia makes it ultimately less likely that our sons and daughters will end up in a war.

Neither is it obvious that what is being suggested is "middle ground" or even that "middle ground" between a fascist tyranny and a free democracy is the best endpoint.
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But again the year is 2025, not 1939. Do you think that we should ultimately goto war with Russia with the obvious ultimate intent of defeating/removing a dictator who is in charge of nuclear armed country? It's total madness and it will end humanity at least in Europe. Therefore there HAS to be a middle ground surely?

I don't see how simply engaging with Russia is a bad thing and Russia is not going to invade Europe. Anybody who says that is a lunatic and is totally ignorant to the fact that Ukraine was never part of Europe until it decided to change that by force in 2014. That is ultimately what drove Russia to do what it has done (which was obviously wrong of Putin btw).

What has happened in Ukraine is complex and comes down to history. I mean christ the majority of people in the occupied regions of Crimea and many other regions of Ukraine speak Russian because there is considerable shared history with Ukraine and Russia, far more than Europe. There is therefore considerable middle ground to be had.

This isn't about Nazi Germany invading Europe/Poland and we shouldn't go to war just because we think that Ukraine should be brought into the European sphere of influence. The very same argument could be said for Belarus where the difference is they haven't had a anti-dictatorial revolution. So as part of liberating Ukraine should we go to war with the Belarusians to remove Lukashenko too? It's complete stupidity.
 
inbetween said:
But again the year is 2025, not 1939. Do you think that we should ultimately goto war with Russia with the obvious ultimate intent of defeating/removing a dictator who is in charge of nuclear armed country? It's total madness and it will end humanity at least in Europe. Therefore there HAS to be a middle ground surely?

I don't see how simply engaging with Russia is a bad thing and Russia is not going to invade Europe. Anybody who says that is a lunatic and is totally ignorant to the fact that Ukraine was never part of Europe until it decided to change that by force in 2014. That is ultimately what drove Russia to do what it has done (which was obviously wrong of Putin btw).

What has happened in Ukraine is complex and comes down to history. I mean christ the majority of people in the occupied regions of Crimea and many other regions of Ukraine speak Russian because there is considerable shared history with Ukraine and Russia, far more than Europe. There is therefore considerable middle ground to be had.

This isn't about Nazi Germany invading Europe/Poland and we shouldn't go to war just because we think that Ukraine should be brought into the European sphere of influence. The very same argument could be said for Belarus where the difference is they haven't had a anti-dictatorial revolution. So as part of liberating Ukraine should we go to war with the Belarusians to remove Lukashenko too? It's complete stupidity.
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Engage with Russia - Yes
Give in to their illegal inavsion and demands - not for me
 
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