Russian invasion of Ukraine

The more I read this thread and the Trump one, the more I realise America is fucked.
You, the decent Americans, will not get what's left of your country back in 4 years time. Musk has taken over.

I fear for Ukraine. Europe must start acting as one and they must give everything to help Ukraine win because if they don't, it won't stop with Ukraine. Trump/Musk will see to thst.
 
Trump and Putin are now realising their long planned carve up of Ukraine.

Pointless Starmer, Macron, the EU or anyone else ever trying to intervene in this. Its been a long term plan between mutually benefitting maniacs.
 

The alliance between the US and Europe has ‘ended’ Imo Now for us its time to find other partners and buy from the rest of the Nato Alliance members..Sweden usually has pretty good kit.​

 
President Trump, “I am in serious discussions with President Vladimir Putin of Russia concerning the ending of the War, and also major Economic Development transactions which will take place between the United States and Russia. Talks are
proceeding very well”
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
Trump and Putin are now realising their long planned carve up of Ukraine.

Pointless Starmer, Macron, the EU or anyone else ever trying to intervene in this. Its been a long term plan between mutually benefitting maniacs.
Click to expand...

To be honest I don’t really see it. Putin wants Ukraine. All of it. Having the Americans in situ in over half of Ukraine isn’t what Russian troops have been dying for. I mean, they probably ain’t sure what they are dying for but it certainly isn’t to have the Yanks profiting out of their blood and with the American military on their doorstep protecting US commercial interests.

If the US want a chunk of the mineral rights then they are going to have to rebuild the Ukrainian infrastructure and economy to get it and they are going to have to put an end to the current conflict and ensure there is no other conflict because US private companies aren’t going to sink billions into Ukraine and then see Vladimir Mk II bomb the crap out of their investment.

Enticing Trump or President Musk into Ukraine with the promise of untold riches makes sense for the Ukrainians. For these riches to be realised the US have to give guarantees and a peace deal. But, I’m not sure Putin wants a peace deal. He wants the US acting like prize dicks and undermining Western/Ukrainian morale and he will keep throwing out demands that Ukraine or Europe will never agree to. So, what does the US do then? Threaten a freeze on weapons and have the conflict drag on, and drag on it will because neither side has a decisive upper hand and the Europeans will ramp up their own weapon deliveries.

I could be wrong here - who knows what is been said behind closed doors and through back channels, but I can’t see how the US profits unless it ends the conflict with the Ukrainians holding most of their territory and that is a essentially a defeat for Putin which I doubt he can accept. All that dead and wounded for what? The Donbas? That has been conflicted territory since 2014.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I just don’t see it.
 
Not sure if its been mentioned on here or not.I think the Russians cant give up the 4 oblasts they have taken because of the war crimes that will be found once given back..
 
More importantly ruzzia can't give back the "4 new territories" because they are part of ruzzia now!

putin can easily declare victory with a standard lie that he has achieved his main targets to free the ruzzian speaking parts of UKR, more or less.
Kept Crimea, now with a new corridor, kept his bridge, got many resources in Donezk soil and has brought peace to the region.
Back to world stage, G8, lifted sanctions and world sports soon.
And Ukraine not in NATO.
@BobKowalski that's not really a defeat, is it??

trump has his deal with UKR, new deals with ruzzia (more than we know, about other regions) and he can leave Europe on its own, saving billions. Another shiny winner.

Zelensky might let trump wait a little further as the Ukrainian parliament has to agree to a deal first. And trump hates waiting...
 
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St.Pauli support said:
More importantly ruzzia can't give back the "4 new territories" because they are part of ruzzia now!

putin can easily declare victory with a standard lie that he has achieved his main targets to free the ruzzian speaking parts of UKR, more or less.
Kept Crimea, now with a new corridor, kept his bridge, got many resources in Donezk soil and has brought peace to the region.
Back to world stage, G8, lifted sanctions and world sports soon.
And Ukraine not in NATO.
@BobKowalski that's not really a defeat, is it??

trump has his deal with UKR, new deals with ruzzia (more than we know, about other regions) and he can leave Europe on its own, saving billions. Another shiny winner.

Zelensky might let trump wait a little further as the Ukrainian parliament has to agree to a deal first. And trump hates waiting...
Click to expand...

It may not seem a defeat to you or even me, but to Putin I’m not convinced he can pass it off as victory and make it stick, especially if Ukraine is full of Americans and the EU pumping in money and rebuilding the Ukrainian economy as a precursor to exploiting mineral resources that Russia and Putin will see as theirs. What was Russia fighting and dying for? America to make money? I just can’t see Putin accepting that and if Russia is forced to accept it then how long before that resentment explodes?

As for US and Russian trade, I can’t see much coming of that either. Russia is sandwiched geographically between two huge trade blocs - EU and China and these two blocs are who Russia historically trades with, not the US.

If the US softens or lifts sanctions then it is China who will benefit first and foremost, not the US. How does the the US China policy square with this outcome? Will US companies rush to invest in Russia? Again I would be surprised given US foreign policy could do another 180 under a different President or even Trump given he has the emotional stability of a five year old. Investment likes stability and certainty.

As for NATO, Ukraine could trade that for EU membership given that also contains a mutual defence clause as membership. This isn’t as good as NATO, but it’s the next best thing and is NATO viable anyway?

I’m just trying to wrap my head around this because it seems to throw up more questions than answers.
 
St.Pauli support said:
More importantly ruzzia can't give back the "4 new territories" because they are part of ruzzia now!

putin can easily declare victory with a standard lie that he has achieved his main targets to free the ruzzian speaking parts of UKR, more or less.
Kept Crimea, now with a new corridor, kept his bridge, got many resources in Donezk soil and has brought peace to the region.
Back to world stage, G8, lifted sanctions and world sports soon.
Click to expand...
There is no way Russia is getting back in the G8. Sanctions will absolutely not be lifted in their entirety. Be amazed if they would get back into world sports as they were in 2022. I would certainly boycott any tournament they were let back in to, including the CL. I would also boycott any company that did business with Russia, as I did with Unilever.
 
Don’t really see anything from the Russian side in concessions that can bring a cease fire into play. They don’t want NATO troops peace keeping in Ukraine, they want Ukraine’s army cut down in size from what it is now. completely unrealistic demands and they have demonstrated over and over again they cannot be trusted to hold any type of agreement. Get the money off America for ammo and equipment, use further support from Europe and finish these horrible twats off once and for all.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Don’t really see anything from the Russian side in concessions that can bring a cease fire into play. They don’t want NATO troops peace keeping in Ukraine, they want Ukraine’s army cut down in size from what it is now. completely unrealistic demands and they have demonstrated over and over again they cannot be trusted to hold any type of agreement. Get the money off America for ammo and equipment, use further support from Europe and finish these horrible twats off once and for all.
Click to expand...
They don’t need USA money just use the frozen assets
 
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